The Astrology of Family Karma and Relationships

Pluto's Shift to Aquarius: The U.S.A Chart and Reflections on Cultural Change 2025

• Alexander Mallon • Season 1 • Episode 13

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Explore the cosmic connections between Astrology, cultural shifts, and self-discovery with me Alexander Mallon, and my distinguished guest host, Dr. Peter Lanzillotta. 

We unravel the profound implications of Pluto's monumental transition from Capricorn to Aquarius, a shift filled with potential for both challenges and personal growth. Drawing from the wisdom of Thich Nhat Hanh, we frame our discussion around the interconnectedness of all beings, emphasizing the healing potential of astrology in bridging perceived separations in our world.

Join us as we navigate the intriguing synchronicity between Astrological Cycles and human evolution, spotlighting the historical context of planetary discoveries like Pluto, Neptune, and Uranus. We explore the upcoming transitions of these three planetary harbingers of change as they each ingress into Air and Fire signs, and reflect on their implications for global cultural paradigm-shift. Through our exploration, we aim to provide fresh perspectives on astrology’s role in shaping societal narratives and individual consciousness.

In a world rich with astrological symbolism, we dive into the nuances of interpreting national themes in birth chart of the United States. With powerful planetary alignments on the horizon, including Pluto and Uranus' return and Neptune’s opposition, we discuss the transformative opportunities these cycles present.

 As we embrace the age of Aquarius, we celebrate the unity and shared learning that astrology fosters, offering gratitude and blessings to our listeners as we continue to explore these universal bonds.

Find out about YOUR important chart placements !

~Alexander can be contacted for Consultation and Coaching sessions. You may contact him via his email: info@astrologyspirit.com or website: https://www.astrologyspirit.com/

You can view his offerings and book directly here: https://www.astrologyspirit.com/book-online

Thank you for listening!
Alexander & Sheila

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Astrology of Family, karma and Relationships podcast. I'm your host, alexander Malland, with a wonderful guest host today, dr Peter Lancelotta. So, peter, welcome.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, Alex. I don't often have a chance to stretch my astrological muscles. Most of my background has been in theology, spirituality and now as an interfaith life coach, but I use astrology as one of the most important tools in helping people with self-knowledge and their sense of purpose and meaning in life.

Speaker 1:

Beautiful? You certainly do, peter. Peter is a brilliant astrologer, brilliant theologian, so I'm so lucky to have you and to work with you and I believe that, Peter, we're going to share with people that today's podcast and YouTube channel broadcast is kind of intended to be, maybe kind of a series. Right, you and I might kind of riff on a number of things these next few weeks ahead or months ahead.

Speaker 2:

There's so much happening for us, welcome the idea of going through all the many issues around socio-political change, socio-economic shifts, and looking at both the personalities and the course that our nation may take in dealing with each of these challenges or, I hope, each of these opportunities with each of these challenges or, I hope, each of these opportunities.

Speaker 1:

That's beautifully said, as always. Also, we should state here we'll talk about this in the future and promo some of your work in a second, but you're also an author of many wonderful books and I want you to share that as we come to that slide. So we do have a PowerPoint that I've created to kind of help take us in for the viewer and for the listener. We'll try to share with you what we're looking at. So, indeed, the title of this show today is the American Dream, the USA chart and reflections on cultural change 2025. I mean, after all, this is some of the powerful juju that we're in right now. These are powerful, shape-shifting times and you know some of the major themes that I think astrology looks at.

Speaker 2:

This rotation will be an introduction to all the many factors and questions that we have, and we will look at it from many angles and then connect it to the astrological changes we see.

Speaker 1:

Thank you, indeed. So a little business first here, peter and folks, regarding the Astrology of Family, karma and Relationships podcast. We're still a pretty new podcast, folks who are following. Thank you for following and for subscribing. And for the rest of you, please do subscribe For the search engines to know that we're out there, that we exist. We have to hit a critical mass of viewers and followers and podcast subscribers, youtube channel subscribers. So please, folks, I do ask for you to subscribe, to follow, etc. So we can kind of deliver more material and have people find us.

Speaker 1:

So here is a slide I've created for our wonderful presenter, peter. Here is a slide I've created for our wonderful presenter, peter. I think that one of the most interesting things, really to the heart of the matter, that I found on your website, peter, when I did this slide to introduce you, was one of the things you stated, which was for you. Astrology allows me to share what I believe about each of you that you are all heroes and heroines in the most important story you'll ever read or ever know the story of your own lives. I think it's a very lovely sentiment, peter, so please let us know about your books and what you do.

Speaker 2:

I think much of the value of astrology is inventory and an evaluation of one's strengths and one's weaknesses, one's opportunities and one's challenges, and so if you know the story of your life, you benefit from self-knowledge, and astrology is one of the most useful tools in coming to greater self-knowledge.

Speaker 1:

Well said, Beautiful. Maybe I'll explain a little bit. You know how we can look at that, but I've added a slide here of a person who I think we both admire, the Vietnamese monk, world famous monk. Many felt he was sort of a bodhisattva figure. Passed away just a few years ago, Thich Nhat Hanh, so kind of an invocation for this powerful series that you and I are doing about the USA chart.

Speaker 1:

I love Thich Nhat Hanh's words here the world is not a problem to be solved, it's a living being to which we belong. The world is part of our own self and we are part of its suffering wholeness. Until we go to the root of our image of separateness, there can be no healing. And the deepest part of our separate from creation lies in our forgetfulness of its sacred nature, which is also our own sacred nature. That, I think, too, speaks to what you just shared, Peter, that astrological work.

Speaker 1:

Our birth charts are a mirror of our soul. I often say, Peter, to my clients our charts are sort of a soul mirror, a soul roadmap that we each independently have. So one of the themes I wanted to launch, Peter and I on today, folks, is this powerful astrological theme that's happening, Pluto changing signs. We're going through a powerful Pluto cycle. Astrologically speaking, Pluto is transiting from having been in the sign of Capricorn for the last roughly 17 years or so and Pluto's now entering a new sign, the sign of Aquarius. Some astrologers feel that Pluto lot more about this coincidence of the astronomy, astrology of Pluto changing signs and how that coincides with generational shift.

Speaker 2:

I mean there is an absolute correlation and it's very important to understand that. It may have shifted as of yesterday and we did get some prelude of it when it visited Aquarius earlier last year or this year but it's important to understand that this transit's going to last till about 2044.

Speaker 1:

Yeah right 2044.

Speaker 2:

So to think we're going to get all of its importance in this first year is rather naive. What we have to understand is that it will unfold, but it won't unfold gently. It will have that powerful convincing energy that we will need to respond to and not just react to.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, indeed, beautifully said. We'll talk about what Pluto really is astronomically, astrologically, in a second, a little bit more to frame that out. But these Pluto transits, these Pluto's movements, coincide. Again, I always tell my clients, peter, that while you know since my background also is a very passionate amateur astronomer, you know so astronomers will say of astrology how can these cycles do something to us? So the issue of physics is at hand here, perhaps, but I like to look at astrology as being simply signposts, guideposts. I use the analogy, peter, for my clients Our birth chart is a roadmap of the soul. If we're driving down the road and we see a curvy road sign, the road sign doesn't make the road curvy. The road sign describes the road ahead and that's, I think, a good analogy for our birth charts. While there is an energetic element perhaps to astrology, it certainly is a coincidence.

Speaker 2:

There is this coincidence of these cycles of nature and whether you wish to call it coincidence or synchronicity, the idea is, the astrology will give you the awareness of yourself and your situation and your soundings, so that you can take that curve in a way that's full of awareness or with greater comprehension that keeps you in a positive direction, rather than driving yourself off the road because you didn't pay attention.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, brilliant. So while we will talk a lot more in future episodes, folks, about the Pluto into Aquarius movement that, as you said, peter, happened just yesterday we are shooting this program on the 20th of November 2024, just after Trump President-elect. Trump has been re-elected in recent weeks, so that's a powerful theme and in 60 days he will be inaugurated.

Speaker 2:

In the future we will probably take up the inauguration chart as well.

Speaker 1:

Indeed. So some of our little graphics here, for those of you who are listening, is a graphic of Pluto. Pluto moving into Aquarius. The sign of Aquarius, the water bearer, aquarius, is not a water sign. For those who study astrology and know that astrology signs are fire, earth, air, water, aquarius is an air sign. It's intellectual, it's mental. It's well, aquarius, peter, is the season of January into February. It's about intellectually making sense of the physical world, the environmental world, let's say the winter world. For those people born above the equator, aquarius is the time of making sense of the winter world and really what it takes to survive sub-zero temperatures. So I always look at Aquarius in nature as, oh you know, it's February, it's January, february, it's chilly. You've got to execute moving through that world snow shovels and all and driving in inclement weather. What have you with great? You know, intellectual awareness. You know you've got to have your head on straight. That's Aquarius and Pluto.

Speaker 2:

Now, there's a little bit more about the origins that confuse people, because in the ancient tradition, carrying water was to carry knowledge, and so, even though the sign is a water bearer, it's that he or the element of water is the carrying of knowledge to the public, not just to the individual but to the culture. So the Aquarian expansiveness relates very much to how knowledge can be used and wisdom can be gained.

Speaker 1:

Brilliant. So that is the essence of Aquarius which, environmentally, as a backyard astronomer myself, I say you know, literally at the eyepiece oh, it's cold, I'm bundled up, it's January, february, it's the longest night, wintertime, you know, the shortest days and time of inward going's. Uh, corollary to what you just shared, this, this, uh, this element of knowledge and understanding, insight, foresight, that is uh very aquarian, aquarian also peter, uh the aquarian time, january into february, uh, for uh tibetan culture marks the beginning of their new year yes, yes, in the East, the lunar new year is often connected to the sign of Aquarius.

Speaker 2:

Yes, now again, it could always be evaluated or investigated. I think China is a Libra country. I don't know what Tibet is. When countries have ancient origins, sometimes it's pretty hard to give them a designation or a sign.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, indeed, that's another reference. In the future, we'll discuss world horoscopes and how each nation is given an astrological identity.

Speaker 1:

Nation is given an astrological identity, in Western astrology at least, but there's a lot more to it. That sort of falls under astrocartography and relocational astrology and the astrology of nations Partly. We will touch on that quite a bit today, since we're discussing the astrology of our national chart, the US chart. But before we get to that slide, we'll just touch on this slide briefly, which discusses those Pluto generations, the astrological generations that particularly Pluto's transits, coincides with. Again, I'm not saying Pluto's making it per se. These Pluto cycles are making something happen, but they are coincident, or as you said. What's the word you use, peter? Not coincidence, rather Synchronicity. Synchronicity yeah, a good Jungian astrologer term.

Speaker 2:

Now I want to be quick to say that I think it's premature to think that this is the dawning of the age of Aquarius. You know I'm a child of the 60s in that way. You know I'm a child of the 60s in that way, and the music was great, but I'm not sure whether the alignment of the planets that they talk about was going to bring anything wonderful into our lives. I'm much more likely to link the dawn of Aquarius all the way back to the discovery of Uranus.

Speaker 1:

But that's another long session and maybe we'll dig into that in the future, although we can say for the audience, peter, that this transit of Pluto into Aquarius in another way, for a Western astrologer marks another major, significant time of the Aquarian Age beginning, another signatory of the Aquarian Age beginning.

Speaker 2:

Further manifestation, further signaling of the shifts in energy. Yes, I think it may have started way back, but I think it's becoming more conscious for us all, and when something is more conscious, then we have to know more about it and take responsibility for it.

Speaker 1:

Indeed, two thoughts come to mind, folks. One is that when astronomers discover a planetary body like Pluto in 1930, pluto was discovered, astronomically called then Planet X, and there was a lottery to name it, and I forget her name now, gosh, I forget the name of the young gal whose lottery was chosen, but she called this Planet X Pluto the god of the underworld because it was so far out there, 4 billion miles away from Earth, and so it was described the name Pluto by an 11-year-old girl. The coincidence here is, when a planet is discovered, comes to human consciousness, there is a correlative to the zeitgeist of the time and the meaning of that planet for people. So Pluto 1930, 1935, 1940, 1945, what was happening in 1930 through 1945 is significantly Plutonian or Plutocratic.

Speaker 1:

When Uranus, as you said, peter, was discovered, when the US chart was born in 1776, in the 1700s, when Uranus was discovered by William Herschel, it was a time of revolution, many, many nations, french and American revolutions, to really name a couple that were particularly significant. So these astrological ages are not only about planets changing sign but also their discovery coincident with our sort of awakening self, sort of a synchronicity with awakening consciousness. This Pluto cycle right now, 2024, into 2044, pluto and Aquarius. They're calling it Generation Beta, after Generation X, gen X, gen Y, gen Z, gen Alpha and the next generation to be born now Gen Beta, and some astrologers call it an unraveling period of time. Kind of an interesting couple of ideas.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, again, this is going to be one of the future topics and we can talk about the influence of Uranus, neptune and Pluto on our country. But one caveat, and my very first book, spirit, time and the Future, took into question the use of all of these different calendars whether it's the Mayan calendar or others, thinking that somehow they were going to be of great influence. When you're dealing with symbolism, you have to also understand that it can be culturally relative. Just like Vedic astrology may not agree with our tropical Western. We have to be aware of time periods and shifts as indications, but not anything that is cut into marble or poured into concrete.

Speaker 1:

Indeed, indeed it's kind of the two elements of astrology. One, we have this parascience where we can say, on the 19th of November 2024, astrologically, the planet Pluto moved into zero degrees of Aquarius. There was this astronomical astrological event that has just occurred. On the other hand, it's a cycle. It's a long cycle With Pluto. Astronomically its orbital cycles can be 14, 15-year cycles or 30-year cycles. We'll get into the dynamics of that another time.

Speaker 1:

But these astrological cycles think of folks, for the people who are watching and listening, it's just as simple as, let's say, for a woman, you know age 12, 13, 15, 20, 25, 30, a moon cycle. You know the lady has her monthly moon cycle. It's a moon going around the earth. That synodic cycle, that moon cycle, it is correlative to menses for women. All astrological phases are cycles of nature. It's an important.

Speaker 1:

So what you're addressing, peter, is this long cycle, this long indicator of Pluto and Uranus and Neptune. So here we have another slide, peter, that I think is really a powerful thing for our audience and viewers and it talks about these planets. We'll get into it a lot more deeply, folks in other programs, but the planets Uranus, neptune and Pluto are really going through significant changes in 2024 into 2025. We can almost say it's almost as the calendrical year ends and the new one opens. Right, peter, that all three of these planets are changing signs in and of itself for an astrologer. These Uranian cycles, this 84-year orbit, 84-year cycles of Uranus, 165 year cycles of Neptune and 248 year cycle of Pluto, these three long, slow-moving cycle indicators, are all changing signs astrologically 2024 into 25. That's a really significant theme.

Speaker 2:

And they're also changing in the sense of archetypes or energies from feminine energies to masculine energies. They'll be moving into air and fire signs because they've had long journeys in earth and water signs. So we are yet to fully understand the impact of that shift, but it clearly is going to look at what kinds of energies will be expressed and generated.

Speaker 1:

So can you tell, Peter, can you share with our audience, when you say the planet Uranus, the planet Neptune, the planet Pluto are shifting from Earth and water signs into air and fire signs, what that means to a lay person? Obviously, we have people watching and listening who are pretty well-adept astrologers, who know what that means. But for those who don't fully grok that, I'm going to use the word grok. You get it right, Peter.

Speaker 2:

Yes, a stranger in a strange land, or whatever that great novel was.

Speaker 1:

It's a nice 60s term, right, grok? And what does grok refer to?

Speaker 2:

It means to fully get something to deeply comprehend yeah, and I and I don't want to uh say that that anyone fully or completely knows uh, we would have to go back historically to when uranus was, uh, all before in gemini, because that's where it will be moving, and we would have to go back historically when Neptune was an Aries, and we can do that in future shows. But the main thing is understanding that there will be a shift to a more active expression of the energies, which is more masculine, versus the more intuitive and subtle that was the feminine.

Speaker 1:

So, in short, when planets are in a feminine sign, that is, a water or earth sign, we can say astrologically the sign of Aries, masculine. The sign of Taurus, feminine. The earth sign Taurus. The sign of Gemini air sign masculine. The sign of cancer water sign feminine. Each astrological sign has been attributed an energetic.

Speaker 2:

You know the duality of Much in the way the yin-yang is. It's about a balance point of the energies. It isn't necessarily societal what a male or a female does.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, a better way maybe would be night and day.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, light and dark, night and day.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, the duality of nature winter versus summer, the dawn versus the sunset and astrology is all about looking at these cycles of nature. That's what astrology is, so that these three major 84-year orbit, 165-year orbit for Neptune, 248-year orbit for Pluto these three planets Uranus, neptune and Pluto are changing signs, astrologically super potent, and it's really for many astrologers indicating the positive Aquarian age, moving into an age of unification and sort of psychic, emotional, spiritual alignment. That's for a lot of astrologers how they look at it. But you know, we just had a fellow astrologer, peter, pass away this past week, the famed astrologer Michael Luton.

Speaker 1:

Michael Luton, who was quite funny. He was a funny, funny character, hilarious, quite the jester and quite brilliant. So those of you who know Michael, one of the things that Michael shared with me decades ago was that when a planet ingresses into a new sign, from one sign to another as Uranus is doing in 2025, as Neptune is doing in 2025, as Pluto is doing right now, almost entering 2025, when a planet ingresses, there is a shift where the old guard holds on, you know, or the old way, or the old pattern of habituation. We tend to hold on as there is a a deeper shift happening, collective shift. So, while there's a forward going, I think we can say, like ai is right now. It's been percolating for a while, ai, but ai is kind of starting to come of age now. There's a massive shift that is, alternate consciousness, ai.

Speaker 2:

The 29th degree of Capricorn holds on for dear life. The way the sea goat hangs on to the rocky ledge.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you're referring to Pluto. You're referring?

Speaker 2:

to Pluto Pluto, I'm sorry, yeah, Pluto. And so that transition or that ingress that Michael speaks of is going to be felt, but it won't be fully expressed for a while, because when something is kicking and screaming and not wanting to let go, it will take a while for the whole society to feel the impact. And the second part of this is when you consult with your local astrologer and of course we want it to be either Alexander or me that you will look for where this transition, this energetic shift, is happening in your own chart, just like we will look at where it's happening in the United States.

Speaker 1:

Brilliant. That's why we work together, peter. We're in alignment yet again in how we see where we're going from and what we're putting down for you guys to pick up. That's it. Looking at these cycles, like we'll be looking at the US chart shortly, apply it to one's own chart. You are in this world, in this social world, in this environmental world, and yet you're a change agent yourself. So those are important ideas. So we'll come back to this another time.

Speaker 1:

But I think some of the Plutonian piece since Pluto was discovered in 1930, and Pluto is about plutocracy, pluto is about plutocrats. Pluto is about energy systems and Pluto plutocracy, plutocrats. Pluto changing signs as this Pluto, planetary change is happening. We're having a new national leader here in the US who is talking about major change. This Pluto return to the US chart. We'll show people ina, second Pluto returning for the first time since our nation's birth 248 years ago. This is significant. Saturn simultaneously on the US moon and Donald Trump had called for the termination of the Constitution. He's called for that in so many ways. We'll come back to this. Very powerful ideas, powerful themes that are plutocratic, perhaps Even the theme of the recent GOP campaign make America wealthy again, make America healthy again, make America great again. These are powerful change agent kind of indicators that you know sweeping large change is what we're after. So this slide is one that you had suggested we talk about briefly today. This slide talks about themes around plutocracy or power or social power.

Speaker 2:

right, right, plutocracy or power or social power right, this is a diagram of all the sociopolitical possibilities that either can await us or that you grow out of or grow into, and so much of it will have to do with what parts of this diagram will be emphasized and which parts will be either ignored, eliminated or overcome. But I wanted to include this just so you would see all the possibilities of what government could or could not do.

Speaker 1:

Can you describe it for those people who are listening to the podcast, Peter?

Speaker 2:

Oh, all right, I think I Again. We will be coming back to it, but in general, when we look at what we consider to be on the left, Hold on.

Speaker 1:

We have a circle on a piece of paper here, folks, that we're looking at in the center of the circle, just like an astrology chart has a big cross in the center of it that describes those four turning points of the day sunrise, noon hour overhead, sunset and then midnight at the bottom. We have a similar pattern here that Peter has drawn for us. So from that point now people who are listening can understand. We've got this circle with a series of potentialities to it, right, okay?

Speaker 2:

Simplistically, the left side of the circle is considered to be the more democratic small D as well as big D and the right side is colored in red, which has a tendency to be more Republican and or authoritarian.

Speaker 2:

And what we have to look at is at the top of the chart is where it's the most authoritarian, and at the bottom of the chart where it is the most egalitarian or non-authoritative. And there are expressions in between that are on the left, more in the area of democracy, liberalism and, I would say, communitarianism, even though that's not listed here and on the right would be much more about Hitler's version of socialism, not real socialism or real communism, if you will. Those have been politically hijacked, but for this discussion it's more in the area of authoritarian, being a monarch, being a federal system that runs to it. But it is a discussion that needs to be taken up in your own personal life as to what influences and controls we wish to accept in our society and which ones we wish to accept and use in our personal life, family life, business life, life, business life. So much of it has to do with whether you locate authority outside of yourself or within yourself and which forms of government you wish to choose or which you choose to support.

Speaker 1:

And so we have this slide that discusses everything from a democratic mindset to an authoritarian mindset, a social system, etc.

Speaker 1:

We're discussing this again, folks, because the astrology of these big, slow-moving planetary cycles, as I said, of Neptune, pluto and Saturn, all changing signs this year 24 into 25, are significant this year 24 into 25, are significant signatory, rather defining cycles, I mean to say, that signify this cultural, massive cultural shape-shifting and within that there are possibilities of how that shape-shifting goes from one polarity to another polarity, and it's really the outer world as well as the inner world. So we had another slide, folks, that talks about what I can control and what I cannot control. What's in my control is within my own being and my own consciousness, my own mind, body-mind, what's out of my personal control, the past, the future, actions of others, opinions of others, what happens around me, what other people think the outcome of my efforts, how others take care of themselves. So there's again a theme of inner and outer. And, after all, isn't astrology, peter, isn't astrology an art form that describes astronomical, literal, environmental cycles, cycles of nature winter, spring, summer, fall, etc. But that chart also describes where we are plugged into that system.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and astrology in its wisdom separates out personal planets, social planets and transpersonal planets. And the personal ones are within our control per se. The other ones have to do with the society that we live in and build and accept. And then the three that we talk about the most with change are ones that affect consciousness on a global level, and our job is to respond to those energies, knowing that we can't necessarily control them, but we can be aware of their influence, effect and the consequences of that energy in our lives.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you know, that's why I introduced this slide of Thich Nhat Hanh, this idea of how am I a change agent, how am I a connector, how am I connected to my inner self? What does that mean to me? What does that mean to us globally? And that is really the essence of this Uranus-Neptune-Pluto cycle these major global cycle changes that are happening around us, to us and within us. So this slide, folks, talks about the movement of context and understanding, from information, experience to knowledge and eventually, wisdom.

Speaker 2:

When I was first a therapist, before I went into the ministry, I studied Carl Rogers, among others, and one of the most compelling things he spoke to me about was how people will resist knowledge. And the reason why they will resist knowledge is because they don't want to be responsible for it. And in this diagram we look at what are the different levels of awareness that we can have. We just accept data which could just simply be opinions, or we can accept information which at least has been studied and cataloged and looked at. Then knowledge is what we consider to be more trustworthy because it has been examined. And then we make a big shift to wisdom, which is how we've internalized the truth or the values or the virtues that we've discovered to be true for ourselves, to what is comfortable, even if it's negative and dysfunctional. There is some kind of perverse comfort in just going along with that which isn't threatening or that is the status quo.

Speaker 1:

And this pertains to our discussion, folks, regarding the changes with the United States chart the changes that we see environmentally globally, socially globally, the zeitgeist, the social change, the astrology of Uranus, neptune, pluto, all three of those major astrological planets that describe social change, environmental change, societal change, the consciousness, global consciousness change. Those are the big planets of our discussion.

Speaker 2:

One of those indications are how countries in Europe, as well as here, have moved more to the right or to the conservative side because they're overwhelmed by the amount of data and information that's coming to them. And one of the theories that I would accept is that many people in our society are still very tribal, very familial, very connected to a smaller source of information and have been overwhelmed by technology, and so they take a step back from anything that's new or challenging because they want to feel more secure in our world.

Speaker 1:

That's brilliant. Thank you, peter. A brilliant assessment. I agree wholeheartedly. I oftentimes share with my clients. I think that we are on a trajectory where I'm holding up my cell phone here, folks, for the people to see where, technologically, we are ramping up super fast but our spiritual, emotional maturation, essentially our coming to a point of wisdom, is lagging. Our humanism doesn't process things in a gigabyte amount of time. So I have some charts here, peter the chart of the United States.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we'll just go from the heavy to the heaviest.

Speaker 1:

I'm going to make this chart a little more visible for people to see out there, while we have our picture there in the bottom of our sharing. So we have two charts of the United States. Of course we all know most of us use the July 4th 1776 chart as the birth day of the United States. Of course we all know most of us use the July 4th 1776 chart as the birth day of the United States and that chart has really two charts that are primarily used. In other words, there's a controversy still isn't there, peter as to really what chart describes the beginning of our nation, the signing of the document on July 4th 1776, and even what time of day that occurred. So we have one chart called the Sibley chart or Ebenezer Sibley, the Sibley chart, ebenezer Sibley, a physician, astrologer, astrologer from Great Britain I believe, who determined through his research that the signing took place collectively July 4th 1776, 5.10 pm in Philadelphia. Another chart that we're going to use is called the Evangeline Adams chart, ascribed to astrologer, american astrologer, evangeline Adams, whose story is terribly interesting.

Speaker 1:

Actually, at the turn of the century in Manhattan, new York, she uses a July 4th 1776 chart at 2.13 in the morning, early morning. So we've got, you know, almost 12 hours difference early morning versus evening. That's what we're dealing with. Was the document signed collectively, after a lot of effort and a lot of struggle, in the middle of the night, at 2.13 in the morning or at 5.10 pm. Most astrologers in America these days are using the 5.10 pm. I use the 5.10 pm, peter uses the 2.13 am chart, and we're going to kind of riff about that a little bit. There are a couple of key themes.

Speaker 2:

Well, we'll riff about it, but it's one of those things that could take at least a year of discussion.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, we're going to have a bunch of shows here. We're going to start doing the astro part, astrology part, really in earnest today at this point, um, but there's a lot to cover. Like layers of the onion is the analogy I always use for all humans layers of the onion. So, peter, um, I think for the for these charts.

Speaker 1:

I've used some arrows here, folks, to highlight key uh indications about both the sibley chart, which is the 5.10 pm, the afternoon, birth time, july 4th 1776, the afternoon chart. Again, if the chart showed a noon hour, that sun would be on the top part of the chart, overhead noon hour. But no, here's the sun getting ready to set over the western horizon in about two hours after the signing took place. If we say 5.10 pm in July, the sun takes a couple of hours before it sets. Obviously it's more like 7 o'clock, 7.30, 8 o'clock sunset, so that sun is in the western sky, which implies something I think very important and we dig into it too deeply. But where the sun is placed in a person's birth chart, peter, what house it's placed in signifies where the light shines. Isn't that kind of an astrology 101 concept?

Speaker 2:

Mm-hmm. Yeah, in fact, when I look at that, that looks awfully early for 510. I would put 510. I hope you froze for a second there, you know, and the way that I would interpret this is I would put the sun in the eighth house.

Speaker 1:

Well, I think there's a lot to. Yeah, you know astrologers to me, peter, we are very. We get caught up in the astrology wheel folks where we want to take it as science as science, and astrology is not a perfect science. It is not water boiling to 12 Fahrenheit sea level. This is not science. This is a parascience. This is taking-.

Speaker 2:

It's more intuitive and symbolic and it's a great mistake for us to equate it with hard science and I know there are parts of astrology communities that are always trying to do that but I do believe that it's a more right brain science, if you want to call it that, or more intuitive and symbolic than it will ever be hard cold facts.

Speaker 1:

Although the one thing we want to say, conversely, peter, is that what an astrology chart is a day, month, year of birth, a time of birth and a longitude, latitude of birth. In this case the US chart, it is literally an astronomically accurate map of the sky, what one can see and what one is. You know the Earth one's standing on and what one cannot see below that Earth one is standing on. So the upper half of a chart is what is visible For this afternoon chart, with that seventh, eighth house sun, as you just said, peter. I agree totally. It's right.

Speaker 1:

In that afternoon part of the sky, it begs the question what do we do in the late afternoon After a hard day's work? We pull together the idea of what we've earned, what we're doing, where we're going, before we return home to our inner nest, our inner world. So the afternoon chart for the United States chart says our spirit, our life force, our sun, our spirit, energy is focused on the needs of others, the needs of the collective, the needs of the social. If we look at the Adams chart, 2.13 in the morning, conversely opposite, it's exactly 12 hours opposite. It places the sun in that bundle in that morning, early morning, between midnight the bottom of the chart and rising. It says the focal point of the US is our inner world, our personal safety, our personal acquisitions, our financial safety, our financial earnings.

Speaker 2:

Let me go for a minute there, alex, please go ahead. I want to clarify. Yes, as far as the scientific part, it's the mathematical correction or construction of a chart. How we interpret it is the intuitive right brain part.

Speaker 1:

Well, that's the difference. Yes, when I go to astronomy conferences and if ever I get into the discussion of astrology with an astronomer which I try to avoid because I get very wrangled out they get very wrangled out. The theme here is the difference between science, the map of the sky and how we interpret that map. The astrologer does the interpretation, the astronomer does the science. Yeah, so to speak. So you would say, of what? What would you say about this? 2.13 am chart of the United States.

Speaker 2:

What's the highlight for you? Am chart of the United States. What's the highlight for you? Because I have an emphasis on houses in the way I interpret. I do believe that we are very much a second house nation where we have all the three most beneficial plants all in the second house, but what I see it as is an exaggeration of materialism, wealth, importance of land, addiction to food, all the excesses of the second house where we can be very materialistic and very greedy.

Speaker 1:

Also too interesting of the 2.13 am chart. It has Gemini rising. So it says the way we rise is verbal, mental, intellectual. Gemini is verbal, intellectual, the way we rise to meet the outer world from our inner world, to meet and greet, moment to moment, Gemini rising, intellectual, verbal data, TV movies, Uranus is right there. It's very social.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and we can be very social and we can be very personal, but it's very erratic.

Speaker 1:

With Uranus there. Uranus is the planet of revolution, it's not something very much about changing and transformation. Yeah, say it again, because you just broke up a second there Change and transformation. What was that, peter?

Speaker 2:

Well, I mean, there's a dual nature to Gemini that has to be accepted, which is their personal thoughts and their personal self-communication. And then there is this desire to be curious and learn and discover ideas in the world. The Uranus part is that it is both erratic, stable, and yet electric and transformative.

Speaker 1:

And it says that our identity is about revolution. Our personal ascendant, the identity, one's identity, your ascendant, my ascendant, the ascendant in this case of the US is Gemini. The ascendant symbolizes one's identification of self in the outer world, how we step into the outer world.

Speaker 2:

And how we identify with the written word Gemini.

Speaker 1:

Ah, brilliant, and that we identify with Uranus and Mars. We identify with Marshall, like guns, gun ownership and we identify with Uranus revolution. Uranus was discovered in the 1700s.

Speaker 2:

Like it or not, we were birthed in a violent way and we are among the warmongers of the world.

Speaker 1:

That's right. So the US chart at 2.13 am has that theme of martial and Uranian revolutionary as really key and central to our chart. Yes, the Sibley chart, that 5.10 pm chart, places Uranus here in the area of the other. It says that our interactions with others are super highlighted, our partnering with others is super highlighted. And notice that they're exactly 180, uranus rising and Uranus setting. So Uranus and Mars here setting says our focus as a nation is on interaction, not on the self per se, but on interaction. You could say we are a melting pot of the many. Right, that's the idea of our nation. In either case, what makes it confounding for astrologers is when you have a 180 flip. You know the charts are the same chart, that's different sides of the same coin. It's a little difficult thing to describe astrologically, mathematically, but that's the case. But this is important here, that this United States chart, the Sibley chart, has Neptune at the top of the chart.

Speaker 1:

Neptune was discovered in 1843. Thereabouts Neptune was the planet coincident to the discovery of film and film emulsion and wireless technologies, and Neptune's all about technology. So Neptune at the top of the career angle of the US chart describes Neptune themes of communication. Look how is the United States understood in the world at large. Oh, hollywood, you know film Hollywood. You know it's real but not real. It looks real but it's not. That's Neptunian. The outer world experiences are Neptunian issues of what is real and what is not real, and what is ideologically real and not real. For that 510 chart, it's very, very powerfully placed. In the 210 AM chart, neptune is not powerfully placed. So each of these charts speak to a different theme.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and obviously that's going to be one of the honest differences that we have in our interpretations. Not that either one is right or wrong, but they each have a potential for credibility and understanding.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, what we're saying. We have the same day, folks, july 4th 1776. We're just describing what is the outer world experiencing primarily of us. The Evangeline Adams 213 chart has the moon at the top of the chart and the career angle, the social angle, moon and Pluto. It says the outer world experiences us as a nation of the people, moon and Aquarius, and also immigration, immigration, immigrants, a nation of immigrants, moon, pluto, pluto. Think of Pluto's discovery in the 1930s. What was the 1930s about? Plutonium and plutocrats and domination.

Speaker 2:

Our nation was born and the National Depression that we had to work our way out of. And one of the ways we worked our way out of it is by changing the national character, and I'm not quite sure whether that would be considered a Moon thing or a Neptune, but I would imagine FDR's chart is going to be among the most fascinating of all because of how we got ourselves out of the Depression.

Speaker 1:

Well, we'll discuss that in the future, won't we? Certainly, particularly as FDR held a number of terms, which is another theme that's back upon us again right now, purportedly with the Trump terms upon us. So I want to come to this, uh, these highlighted arrows that I put here to kind of help us as cheat sheet indicators. Um, the moon here at late degree of aquarius in the afternoon, sibley chart of the united states. That moon, what's happening right now in the sky? What are the big transits that during this coming trump inauguration, what's happening presently? That moon of the United States chart, the afternoon chart, that is, that 5.10 pm chart. The moon at 27 Aquarius has transiting Uranus and transiting Sedna. Sedna S-E-D-N-A. Uranus of revolution, sedna, the planet coincides at 13,000-year orbit, so it's a major collective psychic change. Sedna has just ingressed into the sign of Gemini, having been very much in the late degrees of Taurus with Uranus the whole last couple of years. Square to that US moon, opposition is opposing force, square like a ceiling to a wall is internal tension. So the chart says there for Peter right, revolutionary internal tensions. Uranus said the betrayal of men or of patriarchy, betrayal of patriarchy in a revolutionary way, forming internal tensions with the United States moon, the United States people.

Speaker 1:

In a nation's chart, folks, the moon symbolizes the people of the nation, like the you know the personal participants. And so the moon in Aquarius says our nation is a nation of intellectual air sign Aquarius, of rebellious or independent thinkers, of survival-oriented people. Whether you have a the afternoon chart for the US, a 27-degree Aquarius moon, or the 2.13 am chart, that's an 18-degree Aquarius moon, the US has an Aquarius moon, no matter how you slice it. And, by the way, the US is a cancerian nation, july 4th. So our nation is ruled by the sun and cancer, and the planet that rules cancer is the moon. So the moon's placement for the US chart is very significant For every Cancerian person. The moon's placement in a cancer person's chart is especially significant in describing the nature, the driving psyche of that person. So Cancer US chart says we are of the family, that's our energy spirit. And Moon and Aquarius says we are of the family, but in a very independent way.

Speaker 1:

Lastly, peter, I'll just tell the viewers and listeners we are born as a nation July 4th 1776, just a few days after the full moon. So the moon's on one side of the chart and the sun's on the opposite side of the chart. That's a very key thing Sun on one side of the chart, moon on the other. And so it says there is like a seesaw the sun on one side, the moon on the other. Hopefully, objectification, hopefully objective awareness the key things that are being hit right now. I was wondering if you were going to share some ideas about that, but I'll give you a chance in a second. So key things. The Pluto return when we have this inauguration, peter, the sun and Pluto are conjoined in the sky on January 20th 2025, and they land right on parts of the US chart right.

Speaker 2:

Yes, I believe. So I got waylaid here a little bit with chart work. Let me get back to it all.

Speaker 1:

You want me to go back to the chart that you used, the Adams chart.

Speaker 2:

I was looking at it from a different time, but we can take that up later. As far as the inauguration, I'd rather just move on with our presentation, because this is a very elaborate discussion.

Speaker 1:

It certainly is. But I wanted to look at, if we can, the general cycles that we're under right now as a nation, namely this Pluto cycle. So we have a Pluto return to where the Pluto was in our birth chart. That's the first time we've had that as a nation, since Pluto's orbit is 248 years. This inauguration chart is super, highlighting that Pluto cycle that we've been having.

Speaker 1:

We have also that Neptune cycle we talked about. That's, as you can see, dead opposite to the Neptune of the US chart, the birth chart. The inner wheel is that Neptune and late Virgo. Here the Neptune is in the opposite sign, late Pisces, dead opposite Neptune. So Neptune opposing Neptune, pluto conjoining Pluto. And, lastly, we're getting ready, aren't we, peter, this coming year, for Uranus in the sky to come conjoining Uranus. Uranus was maybe the quintessential planet of the US chart because, of course, the US was formed around the same time period that we discovered the planet Uranus. Uranus symbolizes revolution, the energies of revolution, and Uranus is coming back an 84-year cycle to where it was when we were born as a nation. Over these next immediate few years, highlighting themes of revolution. Uranus is revolution, neptune, energy, plutonium, nature-based energies, solar energy, oil, coal transition and plutocrats. So I'm wondering what thoughts you might have of any about those.

Speaker 2:

I guess what I'm saying is that you've got some very valid points. I haven't had a chance to look at the other chart in relationship to the inauguration, and so I'd rather wait and offer that at another time.

Speaker 1:

Okay, you know, I just want to close shortly then by saying I think this right now I have on screen the Evangeline Adams 2.13, the chart you typically use. I want to close by saying the Pluto return. The Neptune opposing Neptune, uranus conjoining Uranus these three big movers, as we said when we began today's presentation, are about massive social change, identity change, the essence of our political appearance to the world at large. This chart, the Adams chart, is highlighting law and legalities at this particular inauguration, being particularly powerful since we've got a Sun-Pluto conjunction opposing transiting Mars. That Mars-Pluto opposition we're having this whole winter of 24 into 25 falls right on the US chart and the US Mercury.

Speaker 2:

No, I think that you know, again, there are some very important distinctions and there's some very important correlations, and when there is a discrepancy, I always choose what is it that we hold in common, or what is it that we can both agree on. And I do believe that we both agree on the sun conjunct Pluto as being very crucial, and I do believe that the opposition from Mars is very crucial. Now, other things we can talk about at another time.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, what would you describe? The Pluto opposing Mars on the US chart to signify? The Supreme Court and government, and the influence and the power that will be released with Sun and Pluto. Yeah, so, in a nutshell, we've talked today and introduced these ideas of Pluto, plutonian themes.

Speaker 2:

Whenever Mars is in opposition, there is a tendency toward dramatic actions, violence, upheaval and change. And if Mars is in the third house during the inauguration, I can't wait to hear what Trump's speech is going to be.

Speaker 1:

Well, I will say Mars is martial. Mars cycles are in geopolitics and in mundane political astrology. Mars is martial.

Speaker 2:

He promises a lot of major changes that day and actions from his desk that day.

Speaker 1:

Indeed, and that Mars retrograde that we're having beginning right around Thanksgiving 2024, it's just as we enter December, by all means. But again, astrology is about cycles. Yeah, there's an exact degree, and what have you day.

Speaker 1:

But I look at sweeping cycles, particularly with slow-moving cycle planets Pluto and Neptune and Uranus. These are major cycles. That Mars that's retrograde in the sky this wintertime. Retrograde meaning it's close to the Earth in its yearly approach. So Mars is brighter in the sky in the evening nighttime sky. Mars is literally putting on a show astronomically. Mars is literally putting on a show astronomically and it's deeply powerfully involved in this inauguration date opposing Pluto in the sky and right on the US, pluto with the sun there. So there's a big alignment, folks, in the chart, the inauguration 2025 chart, against the US birth chart. That says Pluto, plutonium, mars explosive, explosive plutonium. There's metaphoric and hopefully not literal, explosive plutonium themes. Well, you know, recently, this week, just yesterday I think, at this Pluto ingress into Aquarius on the day.

Speaker 2:

In concert with the inauguration. There is supposed to be a very large protest gathering in Washington at that same time.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, well, that's Plutonian and, as I was saying that yesterday, when Pluto moved into Aquarius for its final move into the sign of Aquarius, just yesterday, the 19th of November 2024.

Speaker 2:

19th of November 2024. Well, I can see we're going to look forward to some really wonderful explanations, discussions, comparisons and lots of gracious insights.

Speaker 1:

Indeed. So one thing about this time period is power, a lot of themes around power, power exchange, collective shifting, powerful times as we all see unfolding and astrology, of course, is mirroring. Astrology is a road sign, so to speak, mirroring these global implications against the US chart. But gee, where is Pluto in Aquarius right now in my personal chart? Where is Neptune entering Aries late Pisces in my personal chart?

Speaker 2:

Where is One of the things that I emphasize in my bi-monthly moon reports to my subscribers is yes, I can tell you about what's happening in the cosmos, but what's happening in your psyche is even more important. So always, always, locate anything that I say in your own personal chart, so that you can get a deeper or more complete meaning of it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, how we are. I always say a birth chart after all. My birth chart, your birth chart, each person listening viewing your birth charts, that's an astronomical map of when your mom had you come out of her body and enter this place, enter this physical, spiritual, spiritual, physical realm as a spirit that you entered this realm. So your chart is a spiritual roadmap describing how you are interwoven with the nature around you, and the nature of not only.

Speaker 2:

Which makes me percolate about a possibility of people sending in their birth charts and we'll tell them where Pluto is or what social progressions will be personal to them as well as national to them.

Speaker 1:

Well, so you're invited folks, We'll try to make sure that we post Peter's contact information and contact data, and mine as well, so you perhaps can reach out to us. There is room for connections and comments, of course, on Spotify, on Apple and on YouTube channel particularly, I believe, there's room for comments, so feel free to comment there and you're welcome to look up both Peter Lanzalotta, dr Peter Lanzalotta and myself. Alexander Mallon, yeah, it would be 1-spirit-coachingcom Say that again.

Speaker 2:

Coachingcom Say that again.

Speaker 1:

Please, peter, for yourself.

Speaker 2:

One-spirit-coachingcom.

Speaker 1:

One-spirit-coachingcom. Excellent, Peter, you're wonderful. So thank you everyone for joining us.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, it's a privilege because, you know, a lot of astrological work can be so isolating because we're concentrating. An individual and the opportunity to share ideas and benefit from other people's years of study is really a rare gift, and I think that there are many channels out there, but there aren't necessarily close friendship connections that allow us to benefit not only you, the listener, but also our friendship, because each time we meet it's an opportunity for deepening that's so true and, after all, in the bottom line, that's what astrology is about.

Speaker 1:

Here we all are, all the signs of the zodiac, all of us together, really, essentially, and more than ever, I think, peter, really, the idea of being brothers and sisters. All boy, that applies to the Aquarian age. Brothers and sisters, all we're all just a click away from connection.

Speaker 2:

Which then ties back to our original. The sacred nature that Thich Nhat Hanh talks about is that humanity is one and we're all in it together.

Speaker 1:

Right on, and that is maybe the essence of the Aquarian age. Thank you everyone for listening, for watching. Blessings to everyone. We'll see you again soon. Thank you, take care.