The Astrology of Family Karma and Relationships

The Pope's Astrology: Sagittarius, Service, and Spiritual Legacy

• Alexander Mallon • Season 2 • Episode 4

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The unexpected passing of Pope Francis in April 2025 coincides with a profound Astrological shift—Neptune's movement from Pisces into fiery Aries—marking a pivotal moment in our collective spiritual journey. But what cosmic forces shaped this remarkable spiritual leader, and what can his astrological blueprint tell us about his mission on Earth?

Born December 17, 1936, Pope Francis carried a Sagittarius Sun positioned at the Galactic Center—a cosmic placement suggesting deep spiritual connection and universal wisdom. This powerful configuration, coupled with his Cancer Rising and Aquarius Moon-Venus conjunction, created the astrological framework for a leader uniquely positioned to bridge divides and champion the marginalized.

Throughout this episode, fellow Astrologer/Theologian Dr. Peter Lanzillotta and I unpack the fascinating correlations between Francis's birth chart and his life's work. We explore how his 6th house Sun placement reflected his dedication to service, while his South Node in the twelfth house connected him to those without voice in society. The wintertime signs of his Sun and Moon dominating his chart reveal why community needs consistently outweighed individualistic concerns in his Papacy—a quality that made him a spiritual descendant of his namesake, St. Francis of Assisi.

We also examine the striking astrological timing of his death. By examining Francis' Solar Arc & Secondary Progressed Charts, along with transiting olanets ... we see classic configurations indicating his 'transition to spirit'. Transiting Saturn conjunct the North Node in Pisces, creating a completion signature in his chart, and multiple cycles of Pluto revealing his life-mission come to completion. That he passed during "Little Easter," a time of resurrection and hope in the Catholic tradition, seems cosmically choreographed. 

As Neptune shifts into Aries, bringing environmental challenges including sweeping ideological changes, floods & forest fires, we stand at a crossroads between Neptune's idealism and Aries' flame of Truth !


Find out about YOUR important chart placements !

~Alexander can be contacted for Consultation and Coaching sessions. You may contact him via his email: info@astrologyspirit.com or website: https://www.astrologyspirit.com/

You can view his offerings and book directly here: https://www.astrologyspirit.com/book-online

Thank you for listening!
Alexander & Sheila

Speaker 1:

Hi again and welcome to this episode of the Astrology of Family, karma and Relationships podcast. I'm Alexander Mallon, your host, and once again, I'm really pleased and lucky to have our wonderful co-host, doctor and theologian and astrologer, dr Peter Lanzalotta. So, peter, thank you for joining us again today and welcome.

Speaker 2:

Well, I'm always pleased to work with such a distinguished friend.

Speaker 1:

Likewise back at you, dear Peter.

Speaker 2:

I already know, just from this topic alone we could have a whole series on Catholicism, heresy, the development of popes, leaders, you name it. But we could combine uniquely and well into presenting all the various contrasting and complementary views.

Speaker 1:

Well, you know, today's program, of course, is happening. This program on April 21st of 2025. And our program today is about, you know, Pope Francis, who just passed. Today we have a little slide presentation to other important spiritual leaders that we've had these days Thich Nhat Hanh, and here an American guru, Ram Dass, who passed not many years ago.

Speaker 2:

And, like it or not, the Dalai Lama is 88 or 89.

Speaker 1:

The Dalai Lama also is getting elder, and it seems to me that we're in a cycle, and those are some slides I wanted to discuss too, but we'll do it another time. Peter, we're at a turning point. I mean, listen, we all know we're at a turning point of history. We are absolutely in 2025, at a major turning point in history. I've been telling my client-.

Speaker 2:

It may not completely manifest until 26, when the air sign change is permanent and that energy of earth and water shifts to fire and air, and hopefully we will be able to redeem that masculine energy and use it for the betterment of humanity rather than the patriarchal system.

Speaker 1:

Well, and we will discuss that, Peter and I we had done another program a few months ago that people can find us on my YouTube channel and on podcasts. We'll talk about that in a second. But we were talking about a very important occurrence astrologically where Neptune in the last four weeks, the early part of this month of April, ingressed or moved into the sign of Aries. So the beginning of Neptune in Aries, a fire sign, Aries. So Neptune shifting signs and the next planet out, Out a fire sign Aries.

Speaker 2:

So Neptune shifting signs and the next planet out Out of its home, sign that it was so comfortable in to a place where idealism catches fire or delusion takes us into flame. There is something else I was planning, or delusion takes us into flame.

Speaker 1:

There is something else I was planning, actually before Pope Francis passed away this morning. I was considering today doing a program Neptune Moving Into Fire Sign Aries, where Neptune in the last 19 years has been in the water sign of Pisces. We had lots of flood events and tsunami events as we all know and drought events.

Speaker 1:

But now Neptune moved into a fire sign and locally, in the eastern US at least, we are seeing another phenomenon of the inspiration or the lighting of the fire of Neptune, ideological lighting of the fire, another version altogether People setting forest fires. That's been another sudden phenomenon To the few weeks that Neptune moved into fire sign Aries. We are having people setting forest fires these last number of weeks.

Speaker 2:

And the other corollary is spreading drought, because we're heating up the planet so much so that the water of Neptune is evaporating in Aries.

Speaker 1:

We'll have to return to this one. This is called political, geopolitical, mundane astrology looking at planets astrologically and what they symbolize about the environment. That is exactly true. Those two are phenomenal about Neptune coinciding with Neptune moving into the sign of Aries. Again, I want to say I always practice, peter, by saying the planets aren't really necessarily doing anything. They are road signs. The road sign doesn't make the road curvy.

Speaker 2:

They're corollaries of what's happening.

Speaker 1:

The astrological astronomical cycles are correlated. There's an interweaving in everything. There's certainly nothing else.

Speaker 2:

That, of course, is one of the great criticisms of skeptics. They say the planets aren't causing. No. No, really good astrologer is going to say causation, but we're going to say correlation, or synergy, or synchronicity.

Speaker 1:

Astrologer, psychologist Carl Jung's idea of synchronicity right, but, but there is just a nature. I say to every client you know if you're a woman, particularly wherever the moon is when you're born, but 29 and a half days later it returns it right where it was. Women know their moon cycle. After age 12. Is the moon doing it? Maybe yes, maybe no, but nonetheless it is a perfect correlation and that's what astrologers study, these correlative cycles. So let's get to our.

Speaker 2:

I'm going to jump from that right into my favorite book by Pope Francis, his famous book on ecology and human life and how we have to respect nature as one of the main expressions of spirituality.

Speaker 1:

Amen to that. So true, I mean, we have one planet, although there are people who continue to think of a terraforming Mars. We clearly are going to populate. We are going to have a physical moon station on the moon soon.

Speaker 2:

for a lot of political reasons, I don't believe that's a plan B. I really think that all the money being spent on outer space is ludicrous.

Speaker 1:

Well, you and I share that. You know, one of my childhood heroes, maybe yours too Carl Sagan, was a big promoter of the Planetary Society. The Planetary Society whose mission is to create spacecraft and orbiters and things that we do send. I mean, I'm all for science and sending probes to Pluto and to Jupiter and mapping and photographing is all terribly interesting. And robotics now. But I'm totally against sending humans anywhere except for rebirthing our planet here.

Speaker 2:

Well, it's just that, the millions or the billions, you know. Yes, scientific research, but why not forestry and management of the oceans and climate change? You know, that's where the emphasis has to be.

Speaker 1:

Clearly yes, without question. Well, let's get into our program specifically, folks, and do our we're very good at tangents.

Speaker 1:

Oh, we're great, I've got a strong Neptune. Yeah, we can just go there. So today's show again is a spiritual remembrance of Pope Francis. I, with Dr Peter Lanzalotta as my host, and we're going to discuss his chart and his life and a little bit about who he was the man. So before we even get there, let me also remind people who are watching on YouTube please do go to my Apple podcast and my Spotify podcast. Please subscribe, follow.

Speaker 1:

I'm really a fairly new show here and for those computer algorithms to know that I exist and show other people that my program is out there, I need as many subscriptions as I can to enable the algorithm to say oh, alexander has a podcast, we can list that for people to check out regarding astrology. So please do subscribe and follow my podcast. It helps me get this shown on those algorithms and let people join our program in the future. So a little bit about our guest, dr Peter Lanzalotta, a fantastic astrologer, a fantastic healer and counselor and life coach one spirit coaching. Right, that's your website. I'll list it later. Peter Peter's also authored, published a number of books, right right, and you'll see that on my Facebook page.

Speaker 1:

Wonderful. I love this quote folks.

Speaker 2:

I love your quote, peter Peter Lanzel, on the Facebook Wonderful. On the Facebook Wonderful, or the One Spirit, coaching has reflections, sermons my bi-monthly moon reports and other things.

Speaker 1:

Well, thank you Wonderful. I love Peter's quote here folks, astrology allows me to state what I believe about each of you, that you are all heroes and heroines in the most important story you'll ever read or known the story of your lives". So I love that quote, peter. So here we have two beautiful photographs of the dear Pope Francis. I so thoughts, peter, you, of all people, you're the perfect astrologer, a professor of theology, a theologian, a reverend in your own right. Tell us, share with us some of your thoughts and reflections, if you would.

Speaker 2:

Well, francis was a one of a kind, hopefully to be repeated, but maybe unique. He was the first one from the Americas be unique. He was the first one from the Americas and so the perspective of coming from the Americas as opposed to coming from Europe makes a distinct difference because of how the America's history with Europe was about colonization and he, taking on the healthy alternative, focused much of his ministry on the plight of immigration and on the tiered system of capitalism and government. So he was a great emissary or a great advocate of taking care of the poor and the marginalized and the people who didn't fit into the system. And so he became very quickly, after his ordination as a Jesuit, a priest of the people.

Speaker 2:

So many other popes were princes of the kingdom and you see in the way he handled his papacy that he stayed a priest of the people, stayed a priest of the people. The formal definition of a pope is pontissimus massimus, a bridge builder between heaven and hell, I mean heaven and earth, and between humanity and God, and I believe that he lived it as well or better than most in the papacy and, I would have to say, in Christianity.

Speaker 1:

You know. By the way, if I may interject, you know it didn't escape my attention that I think just yesterday. I believe that the Pope met with JD Vance. So when you were saying bridge between heaven and hell, my cynical Capricorn mind was going there.

Speaker 2:

Okay. Well, on my website, people have made a comment saying the last person he met was JD Vance, and my response was well, that was probably his last exorcism.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. Well, those and I hope it takes Some people accuse me of being, you know, politically one way or another clearly more to the left. You know, most astrologers, most astrologers, are politically left not politically right.

Speaker 2:

In order to have a worldview that includes all of these possibilities and correlations and syntonies, of course it has to be a wider view.

Speaker 1:

And unfortunately one. Well, we'll get into it. We've gotten into it in other programs. Peter and I did a wonderful program about major cycles of 2024-25. We'll certainly revisit that, peter, those major cycles of Pluto and other factors.

Speaker 2:

And we can talk about the popes, who were astrologers.

Speaker 1:

We should totally talk about the popes who were astrologers, because you and I both, you were Italian by inculcation and breeding. I'm Irish, Irish Catholic. So the issues of the papacy certainly molded our childhoods and our lives more so, especially Reverend Peter.

Speaker 2:

I'm not going to say they were front and center, but they were constant companions to the obligation of going to Mass. And he was always held up as Papa, the Heavenly Father, for all the pros and cons of toxic masculinity versus enlightened, caring fatherhood, the priesthood and the papacy are examples of both.

Speaker 1:

Indeed, but you know, I mean as a person who, when I was very, very little, age six, age seven, my first Saturn square to Saturn. For all of us, age seven is the first Saturn, the principle of maturation and coming to self-awareness. At age six and seven I realized for me well the elements of Catholicism, like the Vatican treasures and yet the nuns who sacrifice and give all. You know, these seeming hypocritical, contradictory factors were distressing and for me Catholicism was difficult early on.

Speaker 2:

Well, you were precocious in that early on. Well, you were precocious in that it hit me in adolescence and so maybe that was my first Jupiter return. 12 years later I started opening up and reading all the material that wasn't necessarily condoned by the church, and I always had a voracious curiosity to know more about things. And, of course, the more I learned, the more dissonance I had with the party line. My first pope, or my guiding pope, was John XXIII. That was to usher in so many advances and changes, and in some ways it's still maturing 60-70 years later. But at least there was a crack of the ice of this frozen patriarchy and along comes someone like Francis who really was living the change.

Speaker 1:

He seemed to me as a person who was disaffected with the Church myself. He seemed to me to be a spiritual descent, a spiritual arrival for the Catholic Church, a 21st century Pope.

Speaker 2:

Well, again from the Americas, not from that stodgy European mindset that was reinforced by all the elderly cardinals, and in his time he has appointed more bishops and cardinals from Asia and Africa and the Americas, and I'm wondering how they will influence the election of the next pope.

Speaker 1:

Ah, fascinating. Yes, of course I understand.

Speaker 2:

Now beginning to tie in the astrology. From what I've always learned, the two signs that seem to occupy the most interest or concentration of spirituality and religion were Sagittarius in Jupiter and Neptune in Pisces. Were Sagittarius in Jupiter and Neptune in Pisces. Not that the other signs are devoid of it and not that we haven't had Leo's ethnicity and strength and leadership, but by and large, when we're looking for religious leadership, we're looking at Jupiter in Neptune and or Sagittarius and Pisces.

Speaker 1:

So we have the chart data here for folks who are listening, not seeing us on YouTube. For Pope Francis, his birth date December 17th 1936. We have 9 pm in Buenos Aires, argentina, for Pope Francis, december 17th. He is a Sagittarian and he's only on December 17th, mind you. He's only there at the tail end of Sag just before early Capricorn.

Speaker 2:

Capricorn in all, signs typically change, sign on the 20th and 21st, and that is the Leo Deccan of Sagittarius, leo's leading into leadership.

Speaker 1:

So his son at 20, you're saying, peter, his son at 25 degrees, in other words, from degree 20 to degree 30, the end of the sign of Sag, where his son happens to be from degree 20 to 30, we have what's called the decan, or the one-tenth division of the sign. That happens for all signs. So 0 to 10, 10 to 20, degree 20 to 30. And each degree of the zodiac don't forget for those of you that don't know astrology pertains or connects to a day of the year. We have an astrological chart, a whole zodiac 360 degrees, 360 days. Okay, with 365 days for our sun, but with astrology it's pretty damn close to 360,. So one degree per degree of the zodiac. So if you are born with your son at the 25th degree, as Pope Francis was, you're born that last 10 degrees of that sign of Sag, that 0 to 30 for each sign. 0 to 30 of Sag, the last 10 degrees. That's where Pope Francis had his son at 25, almost 26 degrees. And that was brilliant, peter. You just said that last 10 degree marker.

Speaker 2:

And that last decan takes on some Leo qualities.

Speaker 1:

And Leo would be Well, how would you characterize the?

Speaker 2:

Leo qualities. So if we just looked at his son yeah, if we just looked at the son we see a propensity or an attraction to religion, philosophy, the higher mind, and then being in the Leo Deccan that you would be led toward leadership in those areas.

Speaker 1:

And, what's interesting, that Pope Francis, at the 9 pm time given, has a Cancer rising, an Aquarian moon conjunct to Venus. So a Cancer rising, an Aquarian moon and a Sagittarius sun. That Sagittarius sun, almost only four degrees, four days from being a Capricorn sun, from being December 21st, which is linked to the pagan holiday, the Christian pagan holiday. In other words, the darkest night where you light the candle.

Speaker 2:

Saturnalia, saturnalia. But you light the candle.

Speaker 1:

Saturnalia, saturnalia, but you light the candle right. You light the flame of the hearth of the home and the candle that symbolizes spirit, the sun rising again, the winter solstice. He's born just four days from the winter solstice, which is arguably the most spiritual day in the year for Judeo-Christians.

Speaker 2:

The most spiritual day in the year. For Judeo-Christians, it is the most interior energy. If you follow someone like Rudolf Steiner and the energy flow of the zodiac around the year we have right now we're in the spring, which is the beginning of the opening of the energies.

Speaker 1:

Francis was born at the almost complete closing down of the energies into a concentrated ball of both darkness and possibility, potential and the beginnings of growth, which is his birthday, december 17th, almost December 21st, days away, the winter solstice every year, the darkest, the longest night of the year and the night that you proverbially light the candle or heart, that's spirit.

Speaker 2:

I'm looking at this and I have a tangent for you, please. I have cancer rising and I have the sun in Aquarius and the moon in Sagittarius.

Speaker 1:

Goodness, wow. I would like to plop up your chart there.

Speaker 2:

So let me just restate it, because your signal is breaking up for a minute. That's a reason for my affinity toward him.

Speaker 1:

Well, let me restate that, because you broke up signal-wise for a second. So you and Pope Francis share a couple of powerful themes. You're both Cancer Risings. He has a Sag sun, you have a Sag moon. He has an Aquarian moon, you have an Aquarius sun. So your charts are practically parallel. And of course, you almost you yourself nearly became a priest and you became a reverend and a theologian, a professor of theology. Well, I became a priest.

Speaker 2:

Yes, but later in the dissenting Catholic Church, the independent Catholic Church. Well, we're going to have to have Catholic Church Because I wanted people to be able to reach deeply into Christian mysticism and not throw away all of the Western tradition because of the oppressive guilt, sin, patriarchy, but to know that the mysteries and the mysticism is really the soul of Christianity.

Speaker 1:

Well, I'm going to have to have a program just interviewing you and your most interesting and formidable wonderful life.

Speaker 2:

That's enough of a tangent.

Speaker 1:

But nonetheless, the spiritual piece is what we're getting at.

Speaker 2:

Okay, Alex.

Speaker 1:

Yes, go ahead Okay.

Speaker 2:

Go ahead, Peter. Well, the expansiveness of Jupiter, but into Capricorn. So it would be an expansion of the foundation, of the rules of a status quo institution.

Speaker 1:

So Capricorn's the institution? Yes, that's what you're talking about.

Speaker 2:

So he would have made his mark. So he would have made his mark in trying to turn the ship of Catholicism into a more expansive and growth-producing direction. Maybe not as much as he would have wanted and certainly not as much as many of the Catholic laity would have desired, but he tried to apply the impulse of being a spiritual person and place it into the organization and try to shift the status quo forward. Even a little bit is significant.

Speaker 1:

Well, certainly you know we were discussing and prepping for the show. Not only that, he is, as I call it, he's a Capricornian-ish Sag. His Mercury in Capricorn and his Jupiter in Capricorn conjoined each other. Mercury, mercurial, verbal communication, jupiter. We call in Western astrology Jupiter the planet that symbolizes spirituality, philosophy. And in Vedic astrology and in Tibetan astrology they don't call Jupiter Jupiter by a Greco-Roman name. They call it Guru. All right, they refer to Jupiter as Guru Peter. Whenever I see a prominent Jupiter in a person's chart, I oftentimes think about Oprah Winfrey. She's at a prominent Jupiter. I call her a Guru. She's a Guru figure. Here we have the planet Guru. In Vedic astrology, jupiter called Guru. We have Guru conjoined the sun and conjoined the north node N-O-D-E, the north node of the moon, the north node for lay people. In the West we consider it the part of Dharma, one's karmic, dharmic mission, one's Dharma, one's spiritual mission of this incarnation. It says his Dharma is connected to the essence of his being, his son, the spiritual essence of his humanity.

Speaker 2:

It's almost like he couldn't avoid it. Destiny grabbed him in this triumvirate of no sun in Jupiter. Well, and this chart says and even though he may have trained himself to be, even though he may, that was not the pole, even though he means that was not the pull. The pull was clearly a devotional pull to the religious life, and one of the reasons why he chose the Jesuits and he is the first pope to be a Jesuit was that emphasis on intellect and service.

Speaker 1:

Well, of course, service. It doesn't escape us, those of us who are students of astrology. His son Jupiter in North Node, jupiter, his guru, planet guru, the sun in the North Node, are all conjoined in Sagittarius. The Jupiter is just barely in Capricorn, almost in its home sign of Sagittarius, so it highlights again the guru spiritual path that he takes in this life in the sixth sector, the sixth house of his chart. And the sixth sector, sixth house of the chart, is the house of Virgo, a house of service, daily routine. Well, but it's more about service, is it not? You know it's, it's it's service, it's service to others. It's where that success.

Speaker 2:

And not just service to others, but often the disenfranchised and the people who don't have. Quote, unquote, the even break.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Polarity with his south node in the 12th house says that he would be a spokesperson for the underprivileged, the confined, the people who were the Anoim of our culture Beautifully said, beautiful remembrance and acknowledgement.

Speaker 1:

You know I look at, I use people who don't know me already will be surprised to know that I, as a backyard astronomer, astrologer, I'm really at the eyepiece every clear night that I can, I look at a chart through that no pun intended the lens of astronomy and for me I look at that 24-degree south node in Gemini in the 12th house and that 10-degree ascendant in Cancer. I look at them as conjunct. I see that south node as conjoined or near that ascendant, and cancer. I look at them as conjunct. I see that south node as conjoined or near that ascendant point. And therefore it says I think about Martin Shulman and his great book on the nodes. Those of you going way back decades into the 70s, when Martin Shulman did a groundbreaking book on the moon's nodes, I believe one of the things said for a South node ascendant conjunction is something to the effect of that no one individual will possess me or have me?

Speaker 2:

I have all three books by him.

Speaker 1:

I think that one interpretation, shulman, go ahead. You're breaking up a bit.

Speaker 2:

Yes, and I read all three of his books on the Hengelad's part, so I want to validate your potential connection there. Because of Shulman and also just there's something about the South Node and the Twelfth house that always resonates with me.

Speaker 1:

Well, one would say the south node. In Western astrology we call it the point of karma and the north node opposite the point of dharma. You know they invert them in Tibetan and Vedic astrology, their meanings, where the north node is the point of karma and the south is the point of dharma, but the west we look at the south node as karma, or I call it habituation, or soul attachment or ego.

Speaker 2:

Where the learning has to happen.

Speaker 1:

Well, it's also kind of collectively from whence we came. You know where we came from.

Speaker 2:

So this implies what we've carried in from past lives.

Speaker 1:

This implies that when we use the South Node Ascendant conjunction, the Ascendant being the identity, Carl Jung called the Ascendant persona.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

So it says there's a karmic theme that no one will possess him or have him. No one can have him when the South Node conjoins the Ascendant. No one can have me or shall have me exclusively to themselves. There's a quality of always holding back from a survival place, that I cannot let go of my full self to any other partner, any singular person, and that's a general theme of south node ascendant. The spiritual, of course, is that I identify myself with those who have sacrificed self or have no voice or are institutionalized or don't have a voice in the societal culture. He has Pluto. Therefore also, I says my sense of selfhood is ego-less and my sense of purpose is larger than the self, larger than my own individuality that it's very possible that Francis was to be a generational leader, not just an individual of his time.

Speaker 1:

Well, when Pluto is at the angles of a chart we see, for instance, pluto-midhaven conjunction in the chart of Reverend Sung Yong Moon of the Moonies Dictators and dictatorial figures, or leader figures or magnetic figures, oftentimes have Pluto angular in their charts, as Pope Francis did.

Speaker 2:

I know we're catching up on time here, but do you want to say anything about that Uranus at the top of the chart?

Speaker 1:

I was going to just ask you what your thoughts about Uranus, because Uranus is the planet that rules his moon and Venus in his birth chart. So what are your thoughts about that moon, that Uranus? Whoops, sorry, here we go. What about that Uranus in the chart? What are your thoughts? What about that Uranus in the chart?

Speaker 2:

What are your thoughts? Well, we've been aware of this for a long time recently, because Uranus has been in Taurus, forus qualities of freedom, discovery, advancement, invention, and Taurus saying no, no, no, stability, security, let's not take any risks here, let's not take any risks here and let's work on the status quo. So it's been a challenging dynamic Now as it relates to the papacy and to his possessed and open-hearted quality, with the Venus that desired to lead others in a way that gave them the security of faith. So the Taurus part is the security and the Venus part would be the faith, but it wouldn't be a legalistic one, it would be a compassionate one. And, as I spoke to you earlier, that Aquarius is not an intimate sign, it is a humanitarian sign, it is a sign of relationships for the ideal of humanity, but not in the idea of one-to-one intimacy. And you know, oh, go ahead Alex.

Speaker 1:

Well, I was just going to interject that. The way I practice astrology as an astronomer, backyard astronomer, astrologer I look at his Venus conjunct, his moon, in the sign of Aquarius, as Venus moon in a wintertime sign, conjoined to the wintertime planets of Saturn and Uranus. So above the horizon the planets that he has are all in except for Uranus, are all in signs of, including his sun. Sign of the community Sagittarius, capricorn, aquarius, pisces are wintertime signs and the wintertime period is about the collective, the need of the collective, not the need of the not springtime summer, the need of the self or the expression of self in springtime summer to create. But wintertime signs are about the need of the collective, whether a winter storm is hitting our neighbors or the old lady down the street or whatever. It's about the collective nurturance of others, not of the self. And he has his Venus, moon and Aquarius, the wintertime sign of composure, collected, intellectual. Aquarius is an air sign, it's mental, emotional, it's a fusion of mindful awareness of others.

Speaker 2:

In Francis's case, it would be the community of believers, the church and the larger vision or purpose of the church as God's home on earth. In that way, or that, it's your rightful place to leave individuality behind, because individuality is, in some ways, the enemy of community Individuality. The enemy of community Individuality, because community requires mutual sharing and unselfishness in order to reach an ideal goal.

Speaker 1:

Individuality is the opposite of the social communal need is what you just said. It has me thinking about President Ronald Reagan in Aquaria.

Speaker 2:

Yes, you do not build an empire. You don't build a large congregation. You don't build a force in society based on individuality. It's based on common values, shared ideals, unselfish dedication and a devotion to that that is larger than oneself.

Speaker 1:

So his conscious light of spirit, sagittarius, sun, almost Capricorn, born in the winter solstice or just near the winter solstice, the night, the longest night, the night of spirit. Some astrologers refer to the winter solstice as the portal of exit, when souls or beings exit the earthly realm, versus the opposite summer solstice the birthing of Sol, if I remember right, what they call the galactic center.

Speaker 1:

isn't that, in the end of Sagittarius Indeed, it is Literally our Milky Way galaxy has its hub, its black hole, its galactic center at that 26 degree, 25, 26, 27 degree of Sagittarius. That is exactly exactly where his sun is 25, 26 Sag, at the galactic center. That's right on. Also too interesting, as you said, his moon sign is Aquarius. Those two signs, sagittarius and Aquarius, are about the spiritual, the community and the communal. And moon rules his ascendant Cancer sun is co-ruler of the ascendant, the first house of his chart.

Speaker 1:

He is a 10 degrees Cancer rising and an 18 degree second house cusp by Placidus houses. So 18 degrees of Leo is in that first house. His first house is governed by the moon and the sun rulership, and his sun is in a sign of spirituality, his moon is in a sign of spirituality. So you know, people have said to me Peter, if you had the chart of Jesus Christ, if you had the chart of the Buddha, if you had the chart of Paramahansa Yogananda, could you tell a spiritually ascended person from an adult, from a person who's asleep?

Speaker 2:

This chart is a classic chart for, at its best, a high caliber human being right, black and white, but we surely can see the potentials and the possibilities of it unfolding in the way of spiritual leadership. Indeed, I remember doing a conference with astronomers on the birth date of Jesus, and I see more than being born in December, for Capricorn.

Speaker 1:

My apologies because you broke up again. Could you just restate that real quick? Do you want to? You just broke up. Could you just restate that quickly?

Speaker 2:

Because of how the calendars have changed over the years and how they've added months and subtracted days and whatever. Jesus was not born on the 25th. That is a date that the Church Fathers chose to coincide with pagan gods, Mithras and Saturnalia and other times when they were celebrating the dark of the earth or the rebirth of the sun.

Speaker 1:

Which is the winter solstice, the longest night of the year, the lowest sun in the sky of the year above the equator.

Speaker 2:

But there were competing deities at that time in the world. Yes, so that's one of the reasons why they put it there.

Speaker 1:

It's a primary reason, in fact.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, the primary reason. Why they have Jesus born in the Trinity, whereas his actual nature that we can see in the Gospels is much closer to a Pisces person than it is to a Capricorn person.

Speaker 1:

Indeed, thank you. Let's go if we can really quick. Indeed, thank you. Let's go if we can really quick, since we just had Pope Francis pass away today, the 21st of 2025, let's look at a couple of quick charts. We will look at the things with the solar arc directions for Pope Francis' chart, namely, the solar arc. Pluto has progressed from its birth position to progress to by solar arc direction solar arc directed to almost 28 degrees of Libra, square, his natal Pluto. The progressed, mid-haven or career angle, or social angle, his social being, who he is in the world, has solar arc directed to his Pluto. Number two death cycle. So Pluto, square, pluto, mid-haven to Pluto. Those are two potential death cycles, pluto being alpha, omega, life and death and rebirth. The number three is his progressed sun is square, his natal sun.

Speaker 2:

The number four and trine that Pluto.

Speaker 1:

That's exactly right. Trine, the Pluto, but also the progressed sun square the natal sun, while that solar arc Pluto is square the natal sun simultaneously. That's the first cycle. When we look at the secondary progress chart, we have the secondary progress sun at 25 of Pisces, conjunct by the year the secondary progressed Saturn also at 25 Pisces, so those two came together at 25 degrees of Pisces. The death chart of today has transiting Saturn North Node at 2526 Pisces. So this is what an astrologer would see. And of course, his lungs.

Speaker 2:

The Pisces quality of the lungs could have been the cause of death.

Speaker 1:

Well, pneumonia fluid, neptunian fluid. But we do have his birth chart again which says he has whoops, sorry guys. He has a sad son in the sixth house of health opposing a 12th house of Gemini. The 12th house in medical, diagnostic astrology rules what do you call it? Arms, hands. Well, no, forgive me, the 12th house itself rules not chronic or acquired conditions, but congenital. That's the word I'm looking for.

Speaker 2:

Oh, okay.

Speaker 1:

So Gemini in the 12th house of Francis' chart says congenitally, he inherits congenitally Gemini in afflictions.

Speaker 2:

And he had lung problems from an early age.

Speaker 1:

And the lungs specifically. We know that Gemini rules the lungs in medical astrology. So it says congenitally speaking, he may come in with lung issues or have congenital lung concerns, which is in fact what took his life these last months of pneumonia.

Speaker 2:

Let's go back to the death chart for a minute, when different astrologers will disagree, but I see the square as being more difficult than the opposition. I agree with you.

Speaker 1:

By the way, they say in tradition, tradition folks that the planets that are opposing or by transit are planets that are in opposition to each other, are the most difficult aspect. I completely agree, Peter. I think I disagree totally. I think squares are much more difficult than oppositions. That's how I read it. And you're saying the transiting Neptune eclipse cycle, north node Saturn on his natal Saturn? Where is his sun? This year is in the house of eighth, house of death, by the way. Is the signature by transit of the potential of his health or his well-being being at stake?

Speaker 2:

That's the way I would read it. I would read it the same way that's the way I would read it.

Speaker 1:

I would read it the same way, but check it out that transiting Saturn 2526 Pisces, the eclipse cycle, 2526 Pisces, and there is something about Saturn that talks about completeness, like you've reached the end.

Speaker 2:

You've done your work in this lifetime. You don't need to go any further. You've done your work in this lifetime, you don't need to go any further. And how do I say this without sounding like a naive fan Dying on Piccolo Pasqua, or what is known in the tradition as the Little Easter? The day after seems so right that he completed his time at the height of the church, at the height of the celebration and the joy of hope and resurrection of the celebration and the joy of hope and resurrection.

Speaker 1:

Wow, thank you for informing us and looking at that connection, that coincidence. I was going to comment that, since Pluto rules life, death and rebirth, these immediate years Pluto has been opposite his natal Pluto. That would be another major death signature, uh, that transiting, transiting mars and pluto have been opposite to each other for four or five months now, since, essentially, uh, thanksgiving time of 2024, mars was retrograde and so mars just changed signs only a few days ago, two days ago, one or two or two days ago, and on the day that Mars, having been direct in motion on his ascendant, opposing his Mercury, comes to his Pluto, within days of Mars coming to his Pluto, not only, well, he has a few visitors there at the Papacy, at the Papacy, one American vice president, but he also has that address to the congregation, to the people, for Easter. He actually holds an Easter ceremony, did he not? Before he passed?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, well, again, there is just this sweet idealism of completion. You know that he wanted to talk to his people one more time before his soul left in the dove.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, he all told he was open to the people. He was open to the concerns of the many. He was open and minded to the LGBTQ population. He was inclusive. He did try to, in his own way, reform the church, Did he not? I mean, what can you share about that?

Speaker 2:

And in the spirit of Francis, you know, I know we have to close, but in the spirit of I would say he was the chief religious ecology advocate and or spiritual people to also be ecologists and warriors, protecting the environment and the climate that affects us all.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you know, for me as a astrologer, for me as an art therapist, for me trained art therapist, for me as a hiker and a naturalist and an avid birdwatcher, and as an avid, avid astronomer, I see God in the world, I see God in everything, not only in everybody, but I especially see God, great Spirit, in this beautiful, this incredible creation. Incredible creation. You know, as an astronomer, how do you not look through the eyepiece at star clusters and galaxies and planets and moons of planets, and how do you not see God, the hand of God, so to speak?

Speaker 2:

And he was one of the great advocates of that intimacy, that oneness and that soulful connection that we have to life.

Speaker 1:

Well, peter, it's delightful to have you. I wanted everyone to please be aware, to go to your website, which is one-spirit-coachingcom. Onespiritcoachingcom. Dr Peter Lanzalotta, astrologer and theologian, please maybe imparting let people know about your books and about what services you provide.

Speaker 2:

Well, I do. Do I have a specialty in spiritual coaching, spiritual life coaching and interfaith spiritual development, or soul work with people where we work together as soul friends and companions? Wonderful, helping you to find your own best answers.

Speaker 1:

So onespiritcoachingcom, dr Peter Lanzalotta. Peter, you're marvelous. There's so much more right. We can listen to Peter all day. There's so much for you to share, educate, to uplift us and have us be more awake. So thank you so much for your presence and for your time today. Thank you, folks, for listening and watching and look for especially look for future episodes where I'll have Peter as a very honored guest and so many things for you to share. Peter, I just I want to continue connecting, involving and gaining more of you and from you. So thanks for coming.

Speaker 2:

I would be glad to participate because the more we can break down barriers, we will be popes in our own life, making bridges to higher realities, to justice, compassion and love.

Speaker 1:

Well, love and hugs and wellness to you and namaste to you, dear Peter, and namaste to you folks listening and watching. We'll see you again at the Astrology of Family, karma and Relationship. Blessings Take care.

Speaker 2:

All right, bye-bye.