C-Sections, Moon Signs, and “Playing God” ??

A 21st Century conundrum and a serious, intimate decision: scheduling a C-section ... with all the medical, personal .... AND astrological considerations. 

With fellow astrologer Rob Meisner, we map the choice of Electing the time to literally BIRTH a baby girl, and the choice between an Aquarius, Pisces, or Aries Moon ! 

Also ... we ask a bigger question—where should intention end and trust begin?

We discuss the ethics and practicality of choosing a C-section date through astrology, focusing on Moon signs & phases, and how hospital realities shape the chart.

 A real birth story—snowstorm, flat tire, and a nurse’s warning—shows how a Pisces Moon with Neptune played out in life.

• core question of  Astrologically choosing a birth date and its impact
• Moon Sign as infant bonding and emotional wiring
• Aquarius, Pisces, Aries moon tradeoffs for the child
• surgery timing limits and morning births reality
• waxing square dynamics and growth through tension
• winter storm logistics mirroring Moon–Neptune
• medical guidance versus ideal Electional timing
• fixed stars Antares and Fomalhaut shaping tone
• practical parenting for Moon–Neptune sensitivity
• chart as event for the whole family, not just the child !

Book with Alexander: astrologyspirit.com
Contact Rob: RobertMeissner65@gmail.com

Find out about YOUR important chart placements !

~Alexander can be contacted for Consultation and Coaching sessions.  You may contact him via his  email: info@astrologyspirit.com or website: https://www.astrologyspirit.com/

You can view his offerings and book directly here: https://www.astrologyspirit.com/book-online 

Thank you for listening!
Alexander & Sheila 

Transcript

Setting The Question: Choosing A Birth Date

SPEAKER_02 0:16

So welcome to another episode of the Astrology of Family Karma and Relationships podcast. I'm Alexander Mallon, and again, today we have a follow-up program with our guest, fellow astrologer Tyrell Reader Intuitive, and more, the great Rob Meisner. So welcome, Rob. Great to have you with us again. Thank you. So we're going to go right to it here. We've got some things to cover. Get to our slideshow to kind of help with those people who are watching on YouTube and some visuals here. So our program really is the astrology of family karma and relationships. C-section birth. Do parents pick a destiny for their child? This is kind of part two for Rob and I, looking at moon signs and more. What is the case? How might we are we playing God? What have you, if we uh have a uh an obstetrician who, as it happened for you, Rob, offers uh a number of times which to give us have a C-section birth. So it kind of opens a can of worms. And and Rob, um you this happened for your daughter Emmy, and you were you were wondering, uh, given like a like a roughly a week or five days, um, you were wondering at the time as a as a fellow practitioner of astrology and fellow student of astrology, we're always students here. There's so much to learn. You know, what day should I choose for uh Emmy's birth? And and what what moon sign is better or than the other? Because there were a couple of changes of moon sign from each day, right?

Moon Signs As Emotional Wiring

SPEAKER_01 1:53

Definitely, yes. And obviously, you know, every two and a half days, um different sign, different life, almost completely different time, different modality, different um, you know, different positive negative, um as well as you know, different um elements as well. So obviously one sign to the next through throughout the the wheel, you know, completely changing tone, um not in the opposition way, but just like obviously going through to the next step. So yeah, um obviously even down to the minutiae, um everything every day, even though certain grand themes would be the same every day, things would be very unique in its own particular way. So um knowing that, especially picking something for a personal planet and a personal relationship, um, very personal, um, something that you know, yes, you do evolve past your birth chart, but you're always going to have your birth chart no matter what, it's always gonna be that. Um, even though eventually we obviously evolve beyond that. But it's a good starting point. Totally true. So um, yeah, it was this weighed heavily on me as as a decision. You know, I was obviously contemplating what what was gonna happen. Um, shall I pick one or the other? Um knowing that in years past, obviously, nobody this wouldn't even be a conversation. We would never even think about oh, like picking a birth chart for a kid. Um so yeah, so like you said, just you know, now that we've kind of opened this, this is um you know, the modern era now that you know, not to go on a tangent, but even things like time have uh um we've changed perceptions of time even even among us so now uh a lot of things have changed. This is one of them changing um perception of what we can and cannot influence.

Practical Limits Of Birth Timing

SPEAKER_02 4:02

So here we are, 2026. Um, and of course, uh in our lifetime, we are are already uh approaching that next event horizon of not only C-section births as you have experienced, you and your spouse, and choosing a day, but now with genetics, there is even you know choosing the genetic genetic material of your child, choosing perhaps even the sex of your child, choosing what uh genetic material is there that could suggest family lineage issues, or certainly having or not having health uh considerations or health issues. So there you know, we're we're entering a whole new age, as we know, in this in this new AI era for starters, where all manner of questions are possible. And for those of us who practice and study astrology, we know, as you just say, uh a birth chart, particularly there are three factors in a birth chart that describe central parts of character. One's sun sign, we think of light of day, the light of consciousness, one's moon sign position, we think of one's plexus or gut or emotional root, and one's rising or ascending sign, describing how do we sort of organize ourselves to moment to moment to rise to meet the demands or requirements of the outer world. So the one thing that in your case particularly was uh varied in in this uh five or six uh seven-day period that your doctor offered you and your spouse for the C-section, the one thing that changed significantly was the moon sign. And we'll show some slides in a second about that. But the time of birth, um, although many people who are listening and know astrology will think, isn't the time of birth really super critical? Absolutely, it totally is. Um, however, there there is some, at this point, right, in technology, there there is some limitation to our defining a time that a c-section will actually be performed. Um, usually uh doctors will prefer if they do a c-section to have that in the morning hours. And usually they mean uh like eight o'clock or nine o'clock onwards in the morning hours, in case, like with most surgeries, there's any kind of challenge or difficulty in the process and to make sure that they have the staff they need uh on hand.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

And in our case, um it was scheduled, I believe, at 9 or 9 30, but it didn't actually happen until 11 03. So um there were a few delays in the hospital, but yeah, generally speaking, I believe they they do prefer you know, just for semantics morning birth, which does imply that you know more and more people are going to be born with uh you know 12th, 11th, 10th house, uh heavy personal planets.

SPEAKER_02 7:05

So well, I I love for this program that not only do we have a winter's tail and a baby's tail, but we have a cat's tail literally in the picture so people see what people are watching. This is we we have we have another baby who's coming to visit us, so came to visit us for this topic. That's that's it. Yeah, so it's kind of timely, perfect for the for your cat to do so. Um, but I just wanted to share that that was kind of funny. After all, babies are ruled by the moon, but also by Mercury in a chart, believe it or not, as are small pets. So yeah. So again, the main theme is my obstetrician offers us options on when to perform a C-section. What's the healthiest for mom and baby, but also astrologically speaking? Who will my baby become? Who am I? How am I experienced in the world by other people as I move through the world, as I mature, as I grow? I mean, this was a central theme, right? What chart do you who will my baby be? And how will he or she uh you know be experienced by us and how will we all get along? Isn't that issue that you were probably looking at your chart and your spouse's chart, mom's chart?

SPEAKER_01 8:16

Yes, um, that's also, but I was mostly concerned with her. Um, I was one of my biggest concerns was with the date that we ended up actually moving forward with was having a sun, moon square. Um, I know squares aren't the easiest, and having the light square, I've you know, might be one of the more difficult aspects of somebody's life. I know a few people that have had it. Um, I think you do too. Um with that aspect, sun, moon, square. And it does create um of all the squares, that is that is one of the you know, obviously more contentious ones to deal with. Um, but it does give you a lot of energy as well.

The Father’s Dilemma: Picking A Moon

SPEAKER_02 8:56

So I've I've heard astrologers say that they believe the sun, moon, square in a chart is the most difficult aspect to have in a chart, where ostensibly one's you know, ego state, conscious light of day, and one's you know plexal gut state are in some ways at odds. I always say, you know, to understand a square aspect between planets, one can think of a ceiling to a wall, that square, you know, inner tension, right? So, no, thankfully, by the way, I mine are minor minor trying to each other. I don't have a moonsun square, uh, but the the moon is uh after my birth applying to begin to square by sign. But uh that that that's those are subtleties in Alexander's character. In any case, Emmy does have a moonsun square. You're right, that is an important piece. Um so one thing that we can think about in general uh is not only our season of birth, our sun sign, because that is what it is. I mean, our our sun sign, our birth sign, says we're born during a certain season, summer, winter, spring, fall. And the character structure of people born spring, summer, winter, fall are uniquely different. And again, everything we're discussing here, folks, is tropical or above the equator, above the equator, where astrology mostly has been organized over thousands of years. Um, but that's another issue, whether we're below the equator or above. Um, but astrology, Western astrology, is tropical or seasonal. And so a person's birth sign describes that spring, summer, fall, or winter possibility of character. Think about what we're doing during each season. I always think of summertime babies, Rob as being, you know, blowing bubbles in the front lawn versus, you know, those of us, I'm a Capricorn, wintertime, you know, like no time for the kids, you know, like you're shoveling, or maybe you're maybe the kid is born, enters the newborn enters the house, and dad is up on the roof and a ladder removing, you know, uh hard packed snow so the cave the roof doesn't fall in. It's a very different trip. Uh what season you're born in.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

Yeah. Definitely. Um, you know, obviously the other signs as well. Um, yes. So sun, moon, sign. I I will tell you this so far. Um, Emmy, I don't know if it's because of her Sag son, but she's so far she just had her sixth birthday. She is very, very bubbly, um, very happy, but in a very uh Piscean um like universal love kind of a way. She she wants everyone to get along, and um, you know, she does have a forceful personality to uh to go along with that.

SPEAKER_02 11:40

So Right, which which we have some charts here for those potential dates of her birth we're gonna get to in a moment, but here's Emmy's birth chart that you guys chose the 3rd of December 2019 at 11 o'clock in the morning was when the uh C-section actually was performed. As we said, it was going to be a morning time because it's a it's a procedure, a medical procedure. It's gonna be a morning time sometime, probably between 8 and noon. Here it's 11.03 for for for uh Emmy in New York. It gives her a Pisces moon. But let's get back to some of the earlier material we have to kind of set this up. Yep. So um we we think about our season sign for our sun. But this idea, interestingly, it's one, I think, one of the toughest things to describe, certainly toughest things to describe for astronomers, you know. Uh I always say um if a child's born in the wintertime as I am, that has one social implication. If a child's born in the summer, that's another social, as you are, that's another social implication that's that's imprinting the child. But why would it make any sense that if we have a moon sign, for instance, in some you know, different uh sign uh season sign of the year, why would that necessarily make uh have any implication, like in a moon sign or a Venus sign or a Mars sign? But we know in astrology it it does, that that all of these things do actually make a difference, that we know astrologically indeed, you know, having a Mars sign or Saturn sign or a moon sign, absolutely just like sun signs carries equal weight that they all describe about that planet's function. So here with Emmy's birth, the the issue, of course, is that moon sign consideration. What moon sign uh do we do we choose? We we're pretty much going to be uh relegated um to a sorry guys to a daytime birth, a morning birth, somewhere between sunrise and noon. Very like unlikely unless the baby came suddenly, unlikely that that there'd be a dawn birth for a C-section. So it's going to be someone with this, as you mentioned, fourth quadrant, right? And the fourth quadrant describes um our outer interaction. It's kind of like we wake up in the morning, have our tea, and then we you know interact with the outer world. That that quadrant, that's a sun in that quadrant between the ascendant and noon hour part of the chart describes a person who's outer world oriented, right? Wouldn't you say?

SPEAKER_01 14:12

Yep, yes, definitely. Um obviously 10th house, career, um, groups, friends, um social systems. Yeah, obviously. Yep. She is uh she is one of the more prominent um social people in the class. So um that just goes to fit. Um I think also that her first house son, even though it's in Pisces, is probably uh probably contributes to that as well. Her strong personality.

SPEAKER_02 14:44

You mentioned a first first house son. I think it's 11th, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 14:47

Or moon, I mean, I'm sorry, yes, moon.

Sun, Moon, Rising: Core Factors

SPEAKER_02 14:49

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. So let's come back to that. We'll show the chart in a moment. Um, but for the sake of this discussion, c section, it's going to be a morning time birth. It's going to be a person whose sun placement um during the course of the day is in that that uh quadrant of the chart that talks about outer world, career, so social, societal themes. Unless they start having c-sections at other times during the day, which is for quite a ways ahead. I don't think that will ever change for the near future, medically speaking. We're looking at all c-sections being morning times. That's another interesting thing. So we have a sun sign theme, a moon sign theme, of course, too, uh, a rising sign theme that's going to be about morning time. And then that sun-moon balance we talked about. And so something we're not going to cover fully today is that sun-moon balance. Um, you know, what what phase a person's born under is another factor. So your daughter, Emmy, is born under a waning phase, isn't that right?

SPEAKER_01 15:55

Um, I believe it's waxing. Um waxing square.

SPEAKER_02 15:59

Oh, pardon, waxing, right, right, right. Yeah, I got inverted my own brain here. So astrology can do, keep you gotta keep your eyes and you know your P's and Q's straight. I'm sorry. So she's a waxing, right? Of course, she's a waxing square. And our little cheat sheet says waxing squares, creating structure, uh, sleigh dragons, hero phase. Um, it is the building of the moon's light. You know, the moon is reflected light from the sun, like all planets, and so it's the the building of sort of that emotional interactive, right? Would you say that that applies to your daughter?

SPEAKER_01 16:33

Yes, I would definitely say that. Sorry, here goes my cat again. That's um yes, um, obviously um I can my chart also I have uh sun, moon, waxing sextile, so I can I can kind of um concur with the urge to like get out there and you know do things, you know, conquer the world a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

Um there is that as that moon is building in light, you know, you're born during the phase, your daughter's born during the phase, which is common in uh in charts of parents too, that there's uh you know, like like father, mother, and child, you're born during the same moon phase of you know a building, a waxing moon phase, you know, getting out in the outer world.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

Yeah. Yeah. So uh that is, and also with my son Danny, I kind of relate to him. Try to be that way. Um my wife, born in a very cold place, you know. I believe she's got a waning, not to get off topic here, but um, she's got a uh waning balsamic moon. See, I believe her moons in Aries, and she has a sun in late Taurus, so um she's very much, you know, let's keep things as neat and tidy as they are, as they can be.

SPEAKER_02 17:50

So yeah, a balsamic phase is is a very different uh internal. And while this cheat sheet says letting go, gathering wisdom, in her voice, um balsamic people. I always say when I teach and when I practice with clients, uh balsamic moon is uh which your wife has uh very internal, often private, but they they they march by the to the beat of their own drummer. They do not, uh these are not balsamic moon people. Uh the dark of the moon is the moon is going toward new to get new again every month. Yeah. They are not people that really are uh plugged into uh other the outer world issue. It's really an individualist, oftentimes a maverick personality. But so the moon phase, bottom line here, not only do we have a a seasonal issue and those the season signs of the moon that can change with a C-section possibility, as it did for you. There were three moons, in your case, Aquarius, Pisces, Aries for your daughter. Um so there's a there's a range of moon signs, which we think about the energy of that sign. As you said, uh it's not only um the season sign, which is the way I like to look at it particularly, but as you said, Rob, it's uh air, uh water, and fire. We'll look at that in Emmy's chart in a moment. The time of birth, of course, it's a c-section, it's gonna be morning. The moon-sun balance, that's another thing that people can think about, um, contemplate when they're going to have a c-section birth. If you really want to be a student of astrology, what phase do I won't wish my child to be to be born under? Uh or you know what what does that mean? What does that mean? Even I wish her to be born under a certain phase. So let's get into the details here if we can. Yeah. So so tell us, run, run us through this a little bit here. I've printed this out here for you. Um, a descent you so this birth of your daughter was a December birth. Um, because it was a December birth, and it was uh, you know, here um above the equator. So a December baby means things like there could be a winter a winter event. In fact, there was a winter storm event. Yeah, um, so so maybe you can read these out um and tell us a little bit about some of the background of these topics that were actually occurring, literally. In other words, the birth chart of your daughter and those other chart possibilities are describing uh these events that actually were occurring. That's the we're gonna get to that. It's an interesting piece, yes.

Weather, Hospitals, And Morning Births

SPEAKER_01 20:20

Um, so um I don't remember exactly the date when I sort of decided, um, yeah, let's just go with you know the time that they gave us. Um but it was kind of um like it was a long process to to kind of get there. Um but you know, December birth, so yeah, there was a winter winter storm. Um I was me particularly, I was working late. Um that the day before I worked um second shift of my job, I got out, I believe it was midnight, it was a little later than I usually do. Um there was a winter storm that had started in that evening. Uh heavy snow was coming down. Um it was the heav that that thick, pasty snow, which is not the easiest to drive in either. Um, so uh on the way home, which is about a half-hour drive, I noticed that I was the car was telling me that one of my tires was flat. So I had to pull off and um pull into a tire shop. This was around one or two in the morning, obviously the place was closed. Wow. So um my father-in-law, who was working overnight um at a place about three miles away, um, eventually ended up picking me up um very early in the morning. He had to leave work early, so that we went home. Um, and then at 6 a.m. we had to leave to go to the prep for um with me and my wife to the prep for getting a C sus section the C-section done at the hospital, which was about 40-minute drive away.

Emmy’s Chart: Pisces Moon Choice

SPEAKER_02 21:55

Um so so our cheat sheet here says, in fact, it was a December baby. So, yes, there was a winter event, in fact, that causes uh maybe some anxiety, some stress. That means gotta cause some anxiety and stress. In fact, not only would they Generally cause some anxiety and stress for mom, dad, maybe for uh hospital staff in terms of getting to their job, maybe for the uh OBGYN you know labor delivery team, right? That's that's gotta cause people a little bit of distress that there's a snow event and there's a baby due a C-section due, but that you were required to stay later than normal in this overnight hours job that you have. That was another factor causing anxiety. Then you you're driving to get home and you have a flat tire. Then your father-in-law was working late, so he had to pick you up at 4 a.m. to help you to really basically have you borrow the car to give you the car, to give you his car, so you can drive your wife to the birth prep. And since you're you now have you know your car is at the tire shop and your in-laws' car is with you, your wife's parents couldn't be present for the birth of the daughter. This is what went down. And the birth chart of Emmy shows this. Okay, so that's something we're gonna dig into here because it's really, really important to understand. Also, I have a little slide here, um, just for those people who are listening or watching who might not be fellow astrologers or fellow you know long-term students of astrology, some basics. So I went to AI and you know, did a quick AI hit, uh, figured let's you know, let's have AI tell us what a moon means for astrologers in general. So here, an infant's moon in the natal chart of an infant, the moon describes the environment and emotional response an infant instinctively knows will provide security and protection. Having no other way to express themselves, infants resonate with a sign of their moon as a source of comfort and security. So infants resonate with a sign of their moon. The sign of their moon describes uh their experience of comfort and security. An infant's moon will describe a mother's ability to respond to her infant and their emotional nature. I see you, I love you, I protect you. The astrological moon is the most important placement in the infant's birth chart, says one astrologer. I'm not sure that's totally true, but I think, right, Rob, most of most of us can agree. And this issue was what moon do I yeah?

SPEAKER_01 24:30

Well, the moon doesn't does of the periods of life, the moon does rule infancy as well as you know, extreme, like, you know, extreme age, like when you're basically elderly in a wheelchair.

SPEAKER_02 24:43

So interestingly, in in uh Hindu and Tibetan astrology, um, the moon's placement not only describes mom and mother uh and family, um, it also describes the karmic nature that the person has come from. I think uh I could be misspeaking here, but I believe um when they talk about uh uh in Tibetan and Hindu astrology that the moon rules karma, um, it describes sort of the the karmic um thrust of the recent incarnation. You know, what what you're coming, what this what the primary uh karma or uh experiences the soul is journeying from, so to speak. Or you could say it's it's kind of the karma dharma. So the moon's placement describes the emotional karma dharma. Something else about uh Hindu and Tibetan astrology, the moon's placement describes the mind. Where Mercury is analytic mind, the moon is the gut mind, the plexal mind. It is the emotional mind, but it describes the the mind and consciousness in general.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

So the moon place uh correct me if I'm wrong, it's also the the aspect of the self that comes out when you're under stress or when you know, you know, you're not completely well put together.

SPEAKER_02 25:59

So absolutely. The moon describes automacy, uh it describes what's familiar familiar sort of auto-programming, emotional gut programming, you know, a gut feeling and a gut response pattern, not necessarily a processed, not necessarily heart-processed or analytically processed, an instinctive response that one could say is, you know, sort of familiar or karmic, even, right? So the paragraph continues. It says the moon describes the environment and emotional response needed from the mom or any primary caregiver for an infant to feel comfortable, safe, secure, and loved. With the moon as a guide, parents can provide their infant with an emotionally rich and appropriate environment that sets the stage for the newborn to have self-assurance, etc. The moon and mom. Well, you know, we know in astrology 101, sun is daddy, and moon symbolizes mommy. That's another thing I'm sure you uh you and your spouse are thinking about. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:56

Definitely.

SPEAKER_01 26:57

So moon and mom, yeah. Which is kind of interesting too, because I'm I don't know. Um if the if the sun is daddy, I don't know how I'm not a very out completely outgoing person. I'm not a very although I I now that you mentioned I do have a ninth house son, so I don't know how much that would affect, but I I do try to you know bring around adventures and and stuff like that, while also being very cognizant of her Pisces moon and trying to be very uh reassuring and and caring and motherly, as uh my son in Cancer would want to do that.

SPEAKER_02 27:36

Your son sign cancer, Rob, exactly. So we'll look at those charts to to, but by all means, please um let's you know let's point that out when we see your chart here. So lastly, folks, um just for those of you who don't know astrology um like the back of your hand, some foundational uh issues here too, but the moon, a newborn's moon sign determines their emotional nature, security needs, instinctual responses. The moon changes signs every two and a half days, which is pertinent to our discussion of when to deliver this child, what day. As the moon moves from, in this case, for Rob's uh baby, daughter, as the moon moves from Aquarius to Pisces to Aries, that's those those are the three signs that you had available uh choices given by your uh obstetrician, right?

SPEAKER_00 28:21

Yes.

Waxing Square And Life Energy

SPEAKER_02 28:22

So AI says, I asked AI, what does it mean for the moon to change from Aquarius to Pisces? So let's see what AI has to say, or general astrologers. As the moon moves from Aquarius to Pisces to Aries, a baby's emotional temperament shifts significantly from detached intellectual, Aquarius, to sensitive empathic Pisces moon, and finally to assertive active Aries moon, fundamentally altering their early nurturing needs and personality and their emotional wiring. So here, moon in Aquarius, it's an air element, it's mental analytics. The baby may need space, intellectual stimulation to feel secure. They may need to uh they may seem to be detached or calm, processing emotions intellectually rather than feeling them with any deep semin sentimentality. But that's so true of Aquarian people in general, and definitely a moon in Aquarius. Moon in Pisces, a water sign, feeling, people who feel or their emotions moon is is a feeling moon. They're not thinking about what they're feeling like an Aquarian moon, they are feeling it thoroughly. A baby with a moon in Pisces, as your daughter Emmy has, will be a highly sensitive, empathic, intuitive, needing a gentle, nurturing environment. They may be deeply affected by moods of people around them. And finally, the third option that you had for the birth of this child, uh a moon in Aries, a fire sign, fiery. The baby will be active, energetic, may express their needs loudly immediately. They need stimulation, freedom to explore, thriving on excitement. So um the these three moons you were well aware are air, water, fire. Yeah? Any any thoughts about this little slide before we change the slide?

SPEAKER_01 30:08

Basically, this is one of the things that I was you know also looking at. Um knowing that she would probably if if she had you know a moon and Aries, I know my wife has a moon and Aries, and having that might make it you know her a little bit more you know compatible with mom. Um knowing that it was still it would still give her um you know very fiery and you know out there personality. Um obviously that was kind of um initially where I was leaning to to go, uh maybe um um an Aries moon uh birth just so that she could have um that freedom of of a trying. Well the the e more ease, I would say, with having the trying, but um eventually something like I said in the last episode, the gut instinct was to just uh stick with the Pisces moon. Um knowing that um I am going to probably have to spend more time being nurturing and understanding and uh caring about that.

SPEAKER_02 31:13

So can is it okay if I show your chart um with with your daughter? So here is Rob's chart on the inner wheel and Emmy on the outer. So again, you chose December 3rd for the birth, that Pisces moon. And I'm sure you were looking you were looking at this like crazy, weren't you? Before when you were choosing the day. Yeah. Now the OBG one, like your your doctor gave you like a five or six day range. And we'll look at a few of those charts in a moment. This is the one you chose, and you chose that your your daughter, um, born December, early December, so she's gonna be a Sag. Emmy's gonna be a Sag, you knew that. Yeah, you thought, well, let me try a uh a water moon. Because at least my being a water sign cancer, she has a water sign moon, that might imply that my daughter and I would have an emotional flow with each other. That's important. So not only will she have a flow with mom, but she'll have a flow with with dad. So that was one of the things you were considering, right?

SPEAKER_01 32:14

Even though our moons are in opposition, um in a way it's there's you know, at least there's contact there. So right.

The Winter Storm Chain Reaction

SPEAKER_02 32:24

So you realize that while I'm a sun sign cancer and she's a moon sign Pisces, so there's going to be a nice dad, daughter, father, you know, the daughter, daddy dynamic here emotionally. Your moon and her moon are opposite, that could be present a problem. But of course, you were looking at the at all the possibilities. So the key thing that we're talking about for the audience is that as a Cancerian um father yourself, you were contemplating either my daughter has a moon in Air in Aquarius, which could be a little cool or distant, uh, or she'll have a moon in Pisces, or she'll have a moon in Aries. And you were wondering, out of these three dates that are possible this first week of December to have her born, which what what do I do? Well, you know, one of the first things that I want to say about uh astrology charts in general, uh, at least I always teach this, as you've heard it, um, uh a birth chart for a baby is an event chart in mom and dad's life. I mean, that's what it is. You're you know, we're having this major event. I mean, for mom, a human coming out of her body is about as big an event as you can have, you know. Um but it is a huge event, like you know, buying a house or moving to Europe or something. It's a huge event. And we're gonna look at this event chart for Emmy, in fact, as a transit chart. So if we look at Emmy's chart uh with Rob, it is an event chart of this baby. It's a transit chart that describes, but also too, this transit chart describes the day itself. So, you know, we we can look when we're since our topic is um basically electing a day for the birth of this child. You know, what what day? Aquarius moon, Pisces moon, Aries moon, what what day? The time is proscribed by the doctors in general, it's going to be morning time of day. Um but the theme for you is which one of these moons. Um so we think of it oftentimes, folks, astrologically, in terms of knowing charts and knowing that a moon-sun combination, knowing that that moon sign itself describes something fundamental, not only about mom, but how that how we're wired emotionally, what was happening around us emotionally. But we don't think as astrologers often um about the chart itself and what it describes environmentally or s or or or uh circumstantially. Here, um, Rob, you know, if if we had spoken about this, uh, gee Alexander, let's kick it around. What do you think? You know, what's your opinion? I would have said, well, number one, we have some you know, medical considerations. It is a c-section, so your doctor probably is suggesting a c-section. You haven't suggested it, your doctor did, number one. Number two, there's a reason they suggested C-section. Number three, um, we have another circumstance, which is the season. I mean, we we are talking about December here. This ain't summertime. So that does bring up the possibilities that something weather-wise could happen. And that's an important um that's an important idea right there and there, and then that that particular theme I think is is really key. We go to Emmy's chart, this Pisces moon, these Pisces moon dates, which are December 3rd, Emmy's um birth date, in fact, and uh the day after, December 4th, um and December 5th, two and a half days, right? The moon is per sign. That Pisces moon in this year 19, uh two 2019 rather, is conjoined the planet Neptune. So, although I am not a meteorological astrologer, there are astrologers who specialize in meteorology. Um I know enough of it to know, you know, moon in a water sign in the middle of winter time next to Neptune. That's storms. So I would have thought, um, by the way, Rob, and when we're looking at these dates in early December, there's a possibility that that moon, Neptune, could suggest precipitation or freezing rain or rain or a snowstorm or something. That would have been on my mind. Especially since it's well, that would have also been on my mind. I'm sorry, that would also have been in my mind with the aquarium moon.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

You're gonna say, Yeah, no, just because it's a relationship with Jupiter too, and Jupiter changing signs there. I know it's a sextile there. Um still a little wide, but you know, definitely, hey. We ended up with about six or seven inches of snow that went that overnight into the next day when Emmy was born. Well, I it was one of the few snowfalls, snowfalls I remember of that winter.

Moon-Neptune And Meteorology

SPEAKER_02 37:04

So well, I I got you about the the the moon applying to a sextile of Jupiter, which which would suggest sort of benefici b beneficence or beneficence, you know, some possibility uh you know positive if there were to be a situation that it would be okay. Um but you know, if we look at that chart for um December 2nd with the Aquarian moon, when of course the storm is already bearing down, when the storm is actually already beginning that evening, um that Aquarian moon um approaching that Neptune, uh Jupiter was still in uh Saj. So astrologically speaking, uh it's still in the sign of Saj, and therefore that Neptune is square. Jupiter again, ergo the possibility of a wintertime event, a storm event. So I would have been thinking about those days of early December, and that that Aquarian moon as being concerning. I'm sure that you were looking at the Aquarian moon also in a wintertime sign, Aquarius, or even if we go, maybe you chose uh November 30th or something for a birth, your C-section, you could have done it probably at the end of November. It would have been a moon brought with Pluto um Saturn. Um so that that would imply moon in a wintertime sign, I call it a wintertime sign of Capricorn or Aquarius, again implying storm issues or challenge issues or stress, stressful issues. So, you know, I wanted us before I I give you a chance to again sort of throw some ideas out there. Here's Emmy's chart with the Moon Neptune conjunction. We did have the storm, and also too, it does say moon-Neptune square of the sun. Sun is dad. Dad was under stress. Why were you under stress? You were asked to work extra hours. Um, then you go to get in your car to get to go to get your wife to the hospital. You have a flat tire, then you have to get in touch with the other father figure, you know, the father-in-law to borrow their car. So there's a lot of stress here that's happening during Emmy's birth. Um, and that would have been my concern during the Aquarian moon phases, Capricorn, Aquarius moon, uh, including the Pisces moon. The one moon that I thought would have been perhaps um technically as far as the day goes, not necessarily as far as how the chart works for dad or mom, but the the moon I would have looked at would be that that Aries moon. Because that Aries moon is applying to a trine of the sun. It implies you know things were fine. And I think right by uh the end of the 5th or the 6th, Friday the 6th, uh uh just a few days after Emmy's birth, but that point the winter storm had really been all cleaned up and was no longer an issue. It's a question mark, I mean was that the case?

SPEAKER_01 40:02

It was, and it was uh it did actually warm up a little bit. I remember it was like kind of in the 40s. It was a very warm day for that time of year. So um yeah, but I was you know, non-astrologically speaking, I was also worried that you know they kind of the object one and said, Yeah, you can have it at a later date, but we would really advise you not to, simply because of you know the medical, you know, she was already overdue and you know going too much would probably you know engaged with some um issues with the childbirth.

SPEAKER_02 40:39

So and that again would be you know the end of November, so the birth date was December 3rd, 2019. The end of November 2019 had the moon in Capricorn with Pluto and Saturn, then the moon in Aquarius, still ruled by Saturn, then the moon uh in early Pisces conjoined to Neptune. So I could see why if you're being told by physicians that it's better to err on the side of caution because your wife had had a C-section before, some complications at birth before the first child. Um, yeah, that would have anybody take medical science and say, well, you know, astrology is one thing, but medical science, you know, tends to I mean science for God's sakes, you know, you can measure these things, you know. It's it's you know, we're as I joke with clients, you know, like right now, you and I are talking on science, people are watching us on science, they're we're wearing science, we're breathing science, you know, heat and air conditioning. Uh you know, we we kind of rate pretty high in the 21st century with science. So if medical science says, I think you ought to have a baby early December, you know, late November, early December, and not wait until you know the first week of December, we probably would err on the side of that, you know, on that caution. But astrologically, and but and but astrologically speaking, that's it.

SPEAKER_01 42:00

It would have been a second house moon, it would have been the trine with the sun.

Aries Moon As Alternate Timeline

SPEAKER_02 42:05

Well, here's the here's the thing. Astrology-wise, we we think that that moon trine the sun uh implies something about her nature and her inner emotional comfort, fire sign Aries with fire sign sun, that she's in harmony with herself because a a moon sun square um usually does imply that's the 5th of December, 4th of December, 3rd of December when she was born, usually implies like sort of inner angst, inner tension for the child. Well, now again, I'm looking at the facts of the case because you had this winter storm, you had the flat tire, you borrowed the car, the in-laws couldn't be there during this birth, your wife had had a challenge with that resulted in c-section the first birth, so there's got to be some. So the charts describing the winter storm, the charts describing the anxiety of mother, the charts describing that there was some tension happening around the birth, those days, the storm building, and then the car and the flat tire and the job situations that you had that were were stressful. Maybe we can't know, right? But maybe this chart describes by the fifth or sixth, and that moon goes to Aries, that all those tensions, certainly the weather tension, the storm had come and gone, and in fact, the temperature had gone from freezing to you know 40 degrees kind of balmy and sunny, right? So the the charts describing now you know, if we can rely only on astrology and not medical science, you you and I would have chosen this chart probably, because we would say, well, yeah, at least circumstantially, we're not gonna have a problem getting to the hospital, nor will the staff or doctor have a problem getting to the hospital. It'll all go smoothly, is quite low. You know, from a from an astrometeorology standpoint, you know, the moon in those wintertime signs of Aquarius, Capricorn, and Pisces would be a little more concerning. So here I'm I'm seeking to kind of join two things together. The chart is a descriptor of the sea the season and the situation, and that and the chart is a descriptor of things either flowing or being. Challenging. We can't know because I mean he was born the third, but we do know that the weather system passed by the 5th and 6th of December and we went to beautiful warm weather. We do have that fact. So the chart that moon and Aries would have would have implied everybody's grooving, the parent, the mother and father-in-law would have been there. You know, it would have all been an easier time socially. But you added something when you were chatting with me in prep for today. You said that on Emmy's birth, the labor and delivery team said something to you that kind of stuck with you. What was that?

SPEAKER_01 44:47

Yeah. Well, um, when Marisa says, Wow, it's a really strange vibe today. Um, that day, right?

SPEAKER_02 44:57

So yeah. So the nurse said it's a strange vibe today.

SPEAKER_01 45:01

Yeah. And then she says, Let's get this baby out. I think she tried to you know see that, oh well, I don't want her them to worry about what I just said, you know, anything like that. But I kind of felt that too.

SPEAKER_02 45:15

Right. And so well, you're also there after you're working overtime in the middle of the night, having a flat tire, driving during a winter storm event. You were driving in the winter. I mean, that's gotta be with your baby on the I mean, that's gotta be really tense. So you were having your own incredible tension event. That moon in your baby's chart was square the sun, daddy. So you were having and Neptune, the moon was conjoined Neptune, the storm. Neptune also is holy crap, I'm driving my car, something's wrong with my car. You know, you're driving to get to your wife to take her to the hospital, and now something you don't know is wrong, Neptune. You don't know what's wrong with your car. That's another moon Neptune manifestation.

SPEAKER_00 45:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:55

So I'm I'm talking about here when we're choosing uh a chart for election, to elect a time to open a business, or to elect a time to sign a contract, uh, or to elect a time of when to close on a house or when to when to have a c-section, when to give birth. The chart is, after all, a descriptor. It describes the circumstances and parties involved. And that's an important piece to consider. Um, yeah, I can't say that you know, I I don't know if I were in your shoes that having uh my wife having had a c-section birth prior that uh was kind of a more emergency. I think you said that.

SPEAKER_00 46:35

Yes, yeah, it was. Uh I the first one.

Medical Advice Versus Electional Ideal

SPEAKER_02 46:38

Yeah, I I think I would have been astrologer or no, concerned with medical science telling me something, and I would have probably also deferred to medical science thinking, God, is it I'm just an astrologer? What if I, you know, pushed a little too long for that Aries moon? And then also, by the way, there's another piece. That's the emotional, psychological, ego piece that you andor your wife might have had. What is an Aries moon daughter going to be like? What is an Aries, what is a Pisces moon daughter gonna be like? What is an Aquarian moon daughter gonna be like or child gonna be like those were thoughts you had too?

SPEAKER_01 47:15

Yes, those were other things that I had um you know flowing through my mind. Um obviously, you know, you know, I know as as a as a girl she would relate to her moon more, you know, and the moon and Pisces, you know, being very spiritual. Um I want to say being a pushover, um was a little bit of a concern for me. But it was also, you know, Pisces has a lot of gifts too that you know obviously don't you know make the headlines, but um even even they might not know necessarily what they all are. Um but you know, I confirm myself that even though it's a square, squares get things moving, squares to um simulate you know the person to you know get the personality moving, get their life in order, it sort of forces you into um into action to grow, um, you know, especially with the Sagitton, Sagittarius being one of the main signs that love growth and expansion. Um so that was that was also kind of in my mind. Yeah, it might be harder for her, but you know it might bear fruit later in life for that was kind of my uh thought process of that as well.

SPEAKER_02 48:36

So, you know, here's what happens for a lot of us astrologers that we um you know, we we look at a chart, and I think that we we get a little myopic. You know, we we look at a chart and we take that chart you know totally to heart. You know, we we we we totally take that chart as as uh describing this person and what she in this case what she will become. Um but we forget when we're considering the C-section time that it's an like I said, an event. So there's a combination of factors. Is in other words, is this chart describing her nature, her soul nature, the soul that's coming in? And would this would the different charts describe it somehow what are we talking about? Different souls? So one idea is like, does it mean that if you had the child on December 1st or 2nd with an Aquarian moon that it would be a different soul? Or are we saying it's the same soul, but then what's the moon changing signs into Pisces talk about? A different set of circumstances? Or are we saying that mom and dad are having different experiences themselves, which then translates to what the child is experiencing? And I want to say there's another piece, which is biochemical. Last show we looked at this chart and I said, ah, moon Neptune. So did your wife receive any medications or drugs? And you said yes, she had an epidural for the birth of this child because she had a C-section, of course. So Moon Neptune, we know Neptune is pharmacology. Why do we how do we know that Neptune, so Moon Neptune says it's a pharmacological event for this birth? How do we know it's a pharmacological event? Neptune, we know, rules drugs. Why does Neptune rule drugs? Because Neptune was discovered when it came to human awareness. Neptune was discovered during the opium wars with Britain. That's one drug thing, but also um the time period in the 1800s when mankind made the first drug substances that were not from natural substances, the first totally man-made artificial substances.

SPEAKER_01 50:40

Penicillin.

SPEAKER_02 50:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 50:42

Penicillin, um, I think they is that when aspirin was finally derived, not from the willow tree, it was finally you know manufactured.

The Nurse’s “Strange Vibe” Moment

SPEAKER_02 50:50

A lot of other other components, and also when many gaseous states of elements were discovered and added to the periodic table. So the periodic table expanded exponentially during Neptune's years of early discovery. Um bottom line is the moon Neptune says, Oh, there may be a pharmacological event. Now, for a scientist that'd say, well, um, if you have an epidural for birth, it it you know, it doesn't, yeah, the baby may have a little grogginess or something like that during, but it has no implications for anything future. Astrologically, however, when we see a moon Neptune in a person's chart, as we see with your daughters, it oftentimes says there is a sensitivity to drugs and or drug dosages, which I bet she will come to find, you'll see that that will be the case for Emmy. So that's another factor in terms of safety for the child or what have you. There's always some, listen, there's always something. You're being born incarnate, there's always something that happens to the incarnate body. You can't play God with everything, but um, it's just another factor to observe that the chart is describing. So we had your dad who was under stress, that moon was in moon was in Aquarius moving into Pisces, uh, dad whose flat tire occurred, dad who's at work with extra hours at work, uh, father-in-law who's now under stress because he's gotta get come to pick you up. Then he then you gotta borrow the car. Uh in-laws were not there for their daughters, for the for the baby's birth when you when their daughter had already given birth to a son and had some critical things around the actual birth itself, that first baby or son. So here's all that wintertime moon stuff: Capricorn moon, Aquarius moon, Pisces moon, Pisces Neptune, unsurety, all the unsurety issues that the circumstances helped to, I want to say, you know, biochemically, you know, hormonally, biochemically, mom's anxiety, dad's anxiety, uh, the absence of uh in-laws for your wife and her feeling supported. There's a whole kind of emotional, biochemical thing. So then does a birth chart, does a birth chart describe not only the circumstances, but the biochemics of the situation? And does that biochemics and emotional and psychological um setup describe kind of the the initial literal synaptic hard wiring? You know, that the the thriving, the baby being born, uh the umbilical cut, and we have a thrive versus survive theme. You know, a baby can't walk or fly or run, so it's a it's about what's thriving and what's surviving, what's working and what's challenging, and the baby absorbing that too. You know, do birth charts describe all of those things? I think the answer is yes to that.

SPEAKER_01 53:34

Yes, absolutely. Um, um in addition to that, um you know, like you said, and the fixed stars, um it was I thought it was just easier in this particular case to stick with you know what was there. Um even though I had I knew like the Aries moon would be nice, I was just like, maybe this is something I had the feeling internally that yeah, this is something that has to happen.

Moon-Neptune And Pharmacology

SPEAKER_02 54:06

So um which brings another theme because yeah, had had with the with the storm and so forth, it's possible that the doctor could have called you and said, listen, we need to do this sooner because we have a storm, we have no idea what the result of the storm will be. Let's let's get on this berth now while we can physically get to to the hospital. For all we know, the doctor could have called you, and if you had chosen the Aries moon date, they may have said, you know, let's do this sooner than later. That could have happened too. We don't know. That's kind of this idea of playing God again, conjecture.

SPEAKER_01 54:36

Yeah, especially with uh them already advising against you know having a later date.

SPEAKER_02 54:41

So that's right. So then we so we had another consideration here. Um uh that was the fixed stars that your daughter on her birthday with that uh that uh there it is, where's the there's a chart? There it is. With the Pisces moon at four degrees, and the sun at eleven degrees. So the sun's eleven degrees Saj, and the moon's four degrees Pisces. And last show I noted and talked about briefly, so here it is, here's a slide, folks, regarding um the sun conjoining the fixed star, Antares, one of the four royal stars, one of the four Persian royal stars, uh, that talk about the seasonal transitions. So that they called the celestial guardians of the cardinal seasonal directions. Antares, uh, which is at 11 degrees, 10 degrees Saj, um, 10 degrees Saj rather, signifies intensity, obsession, transformation. Uh the fixed star, Fomahat, at 4 degrees, 3 degrees Pisces talks about high ideals and spirituality. And indeed it implies that this person with that moon and a fixed star, fixed royal star, and that sun in a fixed royal star, two out of the four that there are royal stars, it says that your daughter may be something special. She may be a really powerful individual. We think with Ontares, her son, um, intense energy, destruction, rebirth, uh, it's oftentimes a military Ontares, fixed star, Ontares, a military indicator, or uh someone who's powerful in direct focus or obsessive focused. If it's um if it's not challenged uh channeled well, it could be burnout or downfall, or in this case the moon square sun, emotional, emotional, uh uh uh uh obsessive, emotional uh upwelling. The symbolism of Ontares is a flaming sword. Fomohat, uh the the watcher of the south, they call it's one of the only stars. Uh in fact, it is it is the only star that's like first, second magnitude in that part of the sky from Aquarius to uh Pisces. Um astronomical, it's a star part of the sky that is basically you know in the south uh empty. There are no guide stars to make sense of one's position astrologically, astronomically. Uh Fomahat is the only star that's kind of brightish in that part of the sky. So that's why it's one of the royal stars, too. Umahot, therefore, is sort of a lantern in the darkness, you know, the the oceanic Pisces, the darkness, or not seeing things clearly in Pisces. You can't see stars, or they're very they're very, very faint stars in that part of the sky, astronomically speaking. Fomot's nature is highly spiritual, idealistic, a magical, glamorous, charismatic nature. Yeah, so those two things are interesting, I think, regarding your daughter's chart. Her moon at Fomahot, four Pisces, her son at Antares, the the Antares, uh, the heart of the scorpion, or Antares means Antha's, or uh rival of Mars. So her sons could join Rival of Mars, Antares. Interesting, right?

SPEAKER_01 57:54

Yeah. The other interesting thing, which I didn't actually notice, I think I talked to you briefly about this, but um my son was born it um February 3rd. Uh I was born July 2nd, my daughter was um obviously December 3rd. Um three sons do for me y'all within two degrees, you know 11 degrees Saj, 11 degrees Aquarius, and 10 almost 11 degrees Cancer. So that is not something I I noticed until after um I made the decision.

Event Charts And Family Dynamics

SPEAKER_02 58:35

So well, all it's all you know, it's all under great spirits. Interesting, yeah. A yawn formation. And that's between your chart, uh, Emmy's chart and my two my two my two children's chart. Yes. And by the way, you know, the moon in a birth chart, Emmy's moon is Pisces can join Neptune. The moon uh birth chart also describes um family and siblings in general. Yeah. So it and so with dad, it sort of says there's adjustment. Years of you're going through a lot of adjustments when you're having these kids as young kids, is what that I think means. A lot of personality, and there's other meanings too, but adjustment certainly is a big one. Um also, too, the other thing I'm not gonna get into here really today. Um, I had a slide around the decans, the decanates. Um, so her moon um was in three degrees Pisces in the Jupiter decanate or decan, Jupiter decan of Pisces. So that's another lovely thing about that Pisces moon that you did choose for your daughter. So always so much to look at, boy, oh boy. There's just charts are just so much to look at. You know, it's it's never ending. Uh opening a chart is like opening, well, so you're opening a portal to the soul, opening the portal to the soul, this incarnation, mom and dad. So, folks, if you want to get in touch with Rob Meisner, who's a fellow astrologer and tarot practitioner and more, you can reach Robert at um Robert Meisner65 at gmail.com. So you receive email to you, Rob?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:05

Yes, I do. Um I check every day. So good.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:09

So Robert Meisner. That's Robert M-E-I-SS-N-E-R65 at gmail.com. And also I'll have Rob, I'll have your data on my uh website, uh, on the show notes rather, the podcast and on YouTube. And folks, if you want to book an appointment with me, you can also go to my website or use this QR code to get there. And uh my website, astrologyspirit.com. Rob, thank you so much again. Uh always interesting. This is a really interesting topic you brought about um the 21st century labor and delivery, choosing a date for C section, as so many people do. Um how how you know what what the what the factors are, and as we've seen, if nothing else, folks, there there are many factors to consider, and there are many ways, uh many many lenses to use, so to speak, to think about this challenging topic.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:05

Alex, it's been wonderful again. Um it's been really enjoyable, and uh I hope this gets everybody thinking. So great.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:13

Thank you very much again. Great. Well we'll we'll uh we'll we'll uh we'll circle back and maybe we'll do some other programming because it sounds like you've got more to share. Yes. All right, thank you very much. Thanks too, Rob. Blessings. Take care. Have a blessed day, everybody. Bye-bye, folks.